Public Release Build 1414

[VosNox]

Mine broke. I DL'd the patch and re DL'd the game and re-patched still the same. I have only 6 bodies and 3 engines. I have the two mid engine variants and 4 standard bodies. That's it. And I still only have the i4, i6 and v8.

Edit: Nvm. Found the bodies, you have to go back in time, which is weird. I get that its more categorically correct, but it's sandbox. It shouldn't be categorized. Everything should just be thrown on your plate for you to do whatever you'd like with.

[Leonardo9613]

There aren't new engine configurations, about the bodies, have you tried to change the year? They are now era-sensitive, so they only can be used for 20 years after their release.

[RAHayesJ]

I think the new UI is perfect, only, like others before me said, the morphing noises are too loud imho.

In that case please advise me how to save a platform to be used later. Or a engine to be thrown into a model later. Or to go back and revise those. And be able to work on those separately without all the unnecessary tabs at the bottom for all the other sections.

It's OKAY as a workflow... but I don't want a whole car workflow, I want to make some things for later use, then swap them in when I feel like it. Not navigate that maze that gets you to make a chassis then design the engine for it. No me gusta.

Also, read my previous page for other feedback.

[Leonardo9613]

It is way easier to use a re-platform, you just have to save a finished model, then edit after what you want and select a new engine, then just save it.
What is the issue with the bottom tabs? They expand and contract in tandem with the part of the process you are in, thus allowing quick jumps to do multiple tweaks.

[RAHayesJ]

It is way easier to use a re-platform, you just have to save a finished model, then edit after what you want and select a new engine, then just save it.
What is the issue with the bottom tabs? They expand and contract in tandem with the part of the process you are in, thus allowing quick jumps to do multiple tweaks.

So... instead of making a new car you're actually taking an old model and re-tuning it from there? That's not easier, not if you want to start new. And how do you load an engine into that model without designing it from scratch? I seem to be too stupid to find it.

Easy. They're huge, so much larger than necessary. They expand and contract yeah sure but, for one, my preferences are for text. I. Like. Text. I like reading it. I also do not need that entire process just littering my screens real-estate, even if it is collapsed. There's so much more you have to look at to find what you need, it's no longer just there. It's taken all the designers and crammed them into one process. I'm not enjoying it. If I'm designing a car and I need to work on the motor there's a button called "Choose Engine" where I can choose to select, create, or revise a new engine model in it's own window where it's easier to find exactly what you want. This LOOKS good, but functionally it's failing to work quicker. If I want to work on the platform/model I want to have those options there, not options to fiddle with the motor taking up room. It's too much to see. I like working quickly, this UI is not allowing it.

Maybe a vertical arrangement, something, but I'm really just not feeling this UI redesign. I'd much rather have the previous one. And yes, I'm trying to give it a chance but it's making me feel ill with trying to adjust. Not ill as in uset, but actually ill. Like, sick. Maybe because the all of the empty space, the animations, but I'm actually feeling sick.

[Daffyflyer]

So... instead of making a new car you're actually taking an old model and re-tuning it from there? That's not easier, not if you want to start new. And how do you load an engine into that model without designing it from scratch? I seem to be too stupid to find it.

For now it is a bit like that if you want to create something from an existing platform, but that's only because the proper "Model Family" stuff isn't implimented, where you'll have a family of models you can add to easily. This is just a first implementation of a design process that'll work better with the final way of designing model families.

The loading an engine into a model thing is a big problem. We know about that one. For now you just click straight on the TRIM tab after you designed the platform, and from there you can click Choose Engine, without designing anything.

In future we'll have it presenting you with the option to choose an existing engine, revise one, design one etc. as soon as you've finished the platform.

Easy. They're huge, so much larger than necessary. They expand and contract yeah sure but, for one, my preferences are for text. I. Like. Text. I like reading it. I also do not need that entire process just littering my screens real-estate, even if it is collapsed. There's so much more you have to look at to find what you need, it's no longer just there.

They're a 32 pixel tall strip (at 1920 x 1080) and many of the buttons even wide enough to have enough space for spanish or german translations on them and in some cases even wouldn't fit english.

Part of the reason they exist is to give us MORE space on each tab for the lists and buttons etc, and they've given us a load more space. I don't really think they could be made any smaller without being confusingly tiny compared to every other button, never mind having space for text.

In terms of there being so much more you have to look at to find what you need, I'd love some further feedback on which things you're thinking of, any information we can present more obviously we will!

It's taken all the designers and crammed them into one process. I'm not enjoying it. If I'm designing a car and I need to work on the motor there's a button called "Choose Engine" where I can choose to select, create, or revise a new engine model in it's own window where it's easier to find exactly what you want.

That button is still there, if you want to do it that way, but it is a slightly slower process than just jumping back to the part of engine design you want to change to quickly fix something.

This LOOKS good, but functionally it's failing to work quicker. If I want to work on the platform/model I want to have those options there, not options to fiddle with the motor taking up room. It's too much to see. I like working quickly, this UI is not allowing it.

I really don't think the options taking up room are the problem here. But I agree that when I first started using the new UI it was a slower process, as i'd very clearly memorized the exact process of building things using the old UI, and this is quite different. These days I find it's quicker and simpler than it used to be to jump to the exact bit of the process I'm looking for.

I agree that designing multiple models/platforms etc is clumsy right now, that is going to have a lot more work done on it in future updates as we refine the model design process.

Maybe a vertical arrangement, something, but I'm really just not feeling this UI redesign. I'd much rather have the previous one. And yes, I'm trying to give it a chance but it's making me feel ill with trying to adjust. Not ill as in uset, but actually ill. Like, sick. Maybe because the all of the empty space, the animations, but I'm actually feeling sick.

A vertical arrangement will take up the same amount of space, probably more, given it'll have to be wider to fit useful text or icons.

Regarding it making you feel ill, that's one I've not heard before, but I can see how it could happen with the animations. We may need to look at the speeds and smoothness of those animations to make them feel a bit nicer and less sickening. I'm not sure what you mean by empty space though?




I'm sorry if this UI is worse for you than the previous one and I 100% agree that it needs more work, but it's going to make so much more sense when integrated with the finished game, and the final model family system.

[Jakgoe]

For the first time, I am opting not to use the open beta, as the UI is not intuitive enough to warrant use. I concur with everything that RAHayesJ has said, and have a few suggestions on the matter.

1) Would it be possible to have there be an option to use the old UI, just with the new colors, gauges, graphics, etc.?

2)

I'm sorry if this UI is worse for you than the previous one and I 100% agree that it needs more work, but it's going to make so much more sense when integrated with the finished game, and the final model family system.

I fully agree that this would be perfect in the tycoon mode, but in the sandbox, it seems to make things much worse, at least for me. In the future, would you guys consider keeping an updated version the old UI for the sandbox, but using the new UI flow for the tycoon? I think it would make much more sense that way.

[Daffyflyer]

I fully agree that this would be perfect in the tycoon mode, but in the sandbox, it seems to make things much worse, at least for me. In the future, would you guys consider keeping an updated version the old UI for the sandbox, but using the new UI flow for the tycoon? I think it would make much more sense that way.

No, but we will be making changes to the new UI to make it work better for sandbox stuff. The reasoning behind the new UI was partially to start prototyping how it'll work in the final tycoon game.

Now we just need to make the changes required to improve the sandbox experience and make it easier to design things NOT in the full tycoon game flow. Any suggestions as to what would help the sandbox experience will be investigated, as it IS an aspect that needs improving.

[Daffyflyer]

Hey, something I just realized might not be super clear. You do all realize you can skip to any point in the design process by clicking on the red and blue timeline buttons right? (In otherwords, they work just like the old tab buttons from the right of the screen, besides the fact that you can access ALL of them)

Also that when you've finished a model and saved it, you can click on any part of the timeline to skip back there and start making changes for a different varient?

[RAHayesJ]

For now it is a bit like that if you want to create something from an existing platform, but that's only because the proper "Model Family" stuff isn't implimented, where you'll have a family of models you can add to easily. This is just a first implementation of a design process that'll work better with the final way of designing model families.

The loading an engine into a model thing is a big problem. We know about that one. For now you just click straight on the TRIM tab after you designed the platform, and from there you can click Choose Engine, without designing anything.

In future we'll have it presenting you with the option to choose an existing engine, revise one, design one etc. as soon as you've finished the platform.

Okay, great. This was one of my biggest frustrations, I'd fully expect that to fit into the engine category. It seems to me that the Engine would deal with the engine, not having to go to the trim to find the engine. Rethinking what I've said before it doesn't "feel" as though the engine category, as it is, belongs in the workflow.

They're a 32 pixel tall strip (at 1920 x 1080) and many of the buttons even wide enough to have enough space for spanish or german translations on them and in some cases even wouldn't fit english.

Part of the reason they exist is to give us MORE space on each tab for the lists and buttons etc, and they've given us a load more space. I don't really think they could be made any smaller without being confusingly tiny compared to every other button, never mind having space for text.

In terms of there being so much more you have to look at to find what you need, I'd love some further feedback on which things you're thinking of, any information we can present more obviously we will!

I've thought more on this, and I find the is the amount of movement needed to scroll/find the tab you want to go too. Before it was easy, slight movements and you're where you want. Now you have to look at what you want, find your mouse, make sure you scroll there, and then click. It's a very active process that will take time to get accustomed with. If they were vertical you could skip the width of the buttons and get to what you want, faster, with less needing to track exactly where you are on the screen. I guess you could say this needs more hand-eye coordination.

A vertical arrangement will take up the same amount of space, probably more, given it'll have to be wider to fit useful text or icons.

This answer is partially replied too with the above. But, the UI has effectively been rearranged. There's more space between all your buttons, selections, and sliders it looks like and it made room to throw the quality slider at the right-hand side and give us an "advance" arrow to move to the next screen but once you get to the stage you're constantly tweaking that arrow becomes pointless, for myself at least. Is it really so bad having the tiny, tiny quality slider right in the top-left corner since it's not so significant for so many of us already? Does it really need to have a gigantic vertical slider instead of the short and wide bar?

Regarding it making you feel ill, that's one I've not heard before, but I can see how it could happen with the animations. We may need to look at the speeds and smoothness of those animations to make them feel a bit nicer and less sickening. I'm not sure what you mean by empty space though?

It may be because I'm focusing on a button when I click it and it looks like everything is moving in the background because perspective. The empty space bit can really be ignored, it's not attributable to the "sickness" I don't believe.

What I haven't commented on we've covered in the question/reply above already, so I think that should take care of what I'm trying to say. I don't mind trying to elaborate more at all. I also appreciate the reply, you definitely took your time on that. I don't like the UI as-is, and I will probably have more appreciation for the workflow of the design once we see how it works with future implementations, but the general layout will probably bother me for quite some time. I'm positive it's the slow-feeling horizontal movements across the screen that are irking me since I don't have my quick-to-find vertical buttons all laid out so much closer together, that's my preference.

[gt1cooper]

Alright, here goes.

I like the new ui, personally. Perhaps it is because I played around with the engine designer alone for quite a sum of time, and now I find more enjoyment out of actually putting the engines into the cars (which is how one should feel when playing a tycoon game about the whole process, keep in mind). Having played

Used to be we had to take several steps to make a complete model; not so much anymore. Changing them is easier too. It is much more streamlined, not having to exit the platform designer to enter the model designer, and exit the model designer (or leave it running in some weird limbo background inaccessible window) to reach the engine designer, then go back to the model designer. Then say you want to make some changes to the engine, you had to click on choose engine, then revise, then actually make a change, and then reload the model. Now, make a change, and instantly see what it did.

You can see how this affects the gameplay instantly. So much more fine tuning can be done. Versus the separate engine designer, I find myself actually making far more changes to the engine once I found something that needed to be changed (i.e. not fuel efficient enough or not enough power). On top of this, if you find that the car does not have enough sportiness and you have some spare change, go ahead and change out that trailing arm for the double wishbone. You'll see the direct changes (whereas before you would've lost your progress and would not know how you improved).

Making models is now much easier too. Once you complete a model, put in the name and click save. Go back to the beginning of the model designer, make your changes, test, (maybe you found that the engine could be optimized for the new market niche in which it is competing, go ahead and change it!) change the name and save, repeat. One simple, intuitive, streamlined process, making it far easier to make a whole model line. Also, if you do have an engine which you would like to use across the model line, skip the engine step and choose it, same as before. Keep in mind, many companies do change things between cars with the same engine internals (i.e. the F150 5.0 is identical to the Mustang 5.0 in actual internals, other than the cams in terms of lift/duration. However, they have different AFR's and different timings, different rev limiters, different exhaust systems, and the like.). Previously this was more convoluted (and definitely less user friendly) than currently.

Basically, this is much more practical for the actual game, and in some ways the sandbox. Give it a shot, Jak. You may like it. I don't miss a thing, personally. Everything is still there, still available, as was before; you can still do the engine designer separate, and you can still just do a platform, as before. Making a whole car is just much easier.

[Trifler]

Man Hours made so much more sense, it made you think "This will take very long to make..." Prod. Units makes no sense to me. At all. I'd recommend changing that back or maybe trying "Production Time" or something maybe?

Lots of great changes in this build, but I have to say I agree with this statement. "Production Units" definitely makes me think of the number of widgets built in one production run, not the time/effort to make one widget. I didn't really like "Man Hours" either, but I'd be fine with "Labor Hours," "Production Time," or even just "Labor" if you're going for something more generic.

[padda94]

I really like the new UI, It looks better, is better for workflow, and making variations is a lot easier. Ialso think it is more intuitive and it is much quicker to learn how to make a car. I also believe that the new UI is better for new players, as the old one could create confusion as to where to start. So far i am loving it, Despite not being able to easily make old cars with old engines. Keep up the good work guys

[Route99]

There is small problem with new UI. Navigation bar is lying over tutorial window.

[Hobokiin]

I'd just like to take this moment and congratulate what amazing things you guys have achieved, especially with such a small team. As an amateur coder, I know how painfully difficult and time consuming coding can be. Well done!