Budget Speed

[strop]

Then my point is, it pays to clarify because everybody is new at some point and doesn't have the same understanding as everybody else. The same question was asked in a separate thread and since this is an often misunderstood point, I felt it important to at least explain what was going on.

I think this light to be one of the golden rules of hosting a tournament actually... More on that later...

[HighOctaneLove]

Then my point is, it pays to clarify because everybody is new at some point and doesn't have the same understanding as everybody else. The same question was asked in a separate thread and since this is an often misunderstood point, I felt it important to at least explain what was going on.

I think this light to be one of the golden rules of hosting a tournament actually... More on that later...

Yeah, strop, I 100% agree with you; just saying "no" when there were two conflicting questions makes the problem worse, not better! I was just stirring up the mud a bit more with a comment that was, in itself, an answer to the original question but delivered in such a way as to befuddle your attempt at making the OP clearly state his case

Are you going to post a sticky thread with tournament guidelines and FAQ's? Because that would be an excellent idea if you are

[utopian201]

I dont think cost take into account production units

[strop]

Are you going to post a sticky thread with tournament guidelines and FAQ's? Because that would be an excellent idea if you are

I'm just finishing a draft, I'll be checking it through with some of the guys who've been around longer than I have to see if we have a consensus.

Also total costs do take into account production units, only they charge awfully little for them, so it's not entirely balanced yet.

[07CobaltGirl]

This is considered as "Sport compact"?

So why did this car not qualify?

The challenge is simple: To create the best sport compact your company can, while costing no more than $10,000 to make.

Rules!

Vehicle must be front engined
Vehicle must cost less than $10,000 to manufacture
Vehicle must get atleast 30 MPG
Vehicle must be powered by either an I4 or I6 engine - No V8s!
Vehicle must be RWD
Vehicle must be made in the 2015 model year

I understand it says sport compact, but what precisely is a sport compact in Automation terms? If Norman's car is Front Engined, RWD, exceeds 30 mpg and was built for the 2015 model year (it clearly states it is a front mounted, RWD, 3.7L I6 in the photo), what is the problem exactly? The OP's Rules don't define compact by size, functionality, or even the number of seats. It certainly looks sporty and it doesn't look like a Cadillac, so I say it qualifies per the OP's Rules!

[NormanVauxhall]

The challenge is simple: To create the best sport compact your company can, while costing no more than $10,000 to make.

Rules!

Vehicle must be front engined
Vehicle must cost less than $10,000 to manufacture
Vehicle must get atleast 30 MPG
Vehicle must be powered by either an I4 or I6 engine - No V8s!
Vehicle must be RWD
Vehicle must be made in the 2015 model year

I understand it says sport compact, but what precisely is a sport compact in Automation terms? If Norman's car is Front Engined, RWD, exceeds 30 mpg and was built for the 2015 model year (it clearly states it is a front mounted, RWD, 3.7L I6 in the photo), what is the problem exactly? The OP's Rules don't define compact by size, functionality, or even the number of seats. It certainly looks sporty and it doesn't look like a Cadillac, so I say it qualifies per the OP's Rules!

Thank for your support. This was my same thought.
I've sent the car to the competition. Soon we will know if it was accepted or not.

Once they made a 6 wheel Formula 1 car only because it wasn't written that a car must have 4 wheels. My rule bending is a bit less shocking

[strop]

That there is the clarification I'm seeking before I make an entry for this. The OP hasn't been updated since that one entry made it through 3 days ago, so I don't know where we are in the process. If the car is accepted, then I'll make a car. If it isn't, then I won't unless a rule about acceptable wheelbases or weight is written into the OP.

[Sayonara]

I agree, discrimination!

So, RWD is discrimination? What exactly am I discriminating...?

I understand it says sport compact, but what precisely is a sport compact in Automation terms?

According to the rules, the following:
BMW 135i/1 Series M

And none of the following:
Honda Civic Type R, Volkswagen Golf GTi, Mazda Mazda3 MPS, Subaru Impreza WRX STi, Audi RS3 Sportback, Ford Focus RS, etc...

I have nothing at all against RWD, I just think that restricting a sport compact to RWD only makes as much sense as running a FWD-only drift competition, given that there's exactly one real-world example (that I can think of, anyway), which doesn't really count given BMW's obsession with RWD.

Also, yes, what is the definition of "sport compact" according to your rules?

[07CobaltGirl]

To be honest, Norman, there are no real definitions (in the real world) for what a "compact" is. It is an objective classification. So, technically speaking, the Cadillac ElDorado could qualify as a "compact" unless a defined rule prohibited it (wheelbase under 100", weight under 3,000 lbs, etc.). I drive a sport compact. I only know it is called a sport compact because it is called one by many other people. It has a 103.3" wheelbase and weighs roughly 3,000 lbs. Both the Camaro and the Corvette have shorter wheelbases and only outweight it by a few hundred pounds (probably due to the V8 under the hood). Other than the V8 (Camaros come with V6's also, and in the 80's came with I4's even), what makes them not a sport compact?

@Sayonara: I agree. Most (but certainly not all) of what "I" would consider to be a sport compact (including my own car) are FWD vehicles!!

[Sayonara]

Definitions of the compact car segment from around the world (from Wikipedia):

USA: 100–109.9 cubic feet of combined passenger and cargo space
Japan: "less than 4.7 m (15.4 ft) long, 1.7 m (5.6 ft) wide, 2 m (6.6 ft) high and with engine displacement at or under 2,000 cc (120 cu in)"
Europe: complicated, but roughly correlates to "like a Corolla or Golf". An MX-5 is not like a Corolla or Golf but is a bit like a Lotus Elise so these are grouped together as sports cars.

So if you combine all of these together, a compact car in Automation terms should have a certain range of wheelbase, a minimum utility score, a maximum engine displacement, and seat more than two people - all with very high tameness.

A sports compact is the same thing but faster and sportier.

[07CobaltGirl]

I understand what it is in the real world. Like I said, I drive a Chevrolet Cobalt Coupe, which is considered an American Sport Compact.



I don't like Wikipedia as a citation source, but....

[urlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_compact]Sport Compact on Wikipedia[/url]

A sport compact is a high-performance version of a compact car or a subcompact car. They are typically front engined, front-wheel drive or all-wheel drive coupés, sedans, or hatchbacks driven by a straight-4 gasoline engine. Performance-oriented sport compacts generally focus on improving handling and increasing performance by engine efficiency, rather than increasing engine size. Sport compacts often feature external body modifications to improve aerodynamics or house larger wheels.

Typical sport compacts include such examples as BMW 135i, Ford Escort RS Cosworth, Honda Civic Si, Renault Clio V6, Renault Mégane Renault Sport, Peugeot 205 GTI, Volkswagen Golf GTI, and in the USA Chevrolet Cobalt SS, Ford Focus SVT, Honda Prelude, Hyundai Tiburon, Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution, Mitsubishi Eclipse, Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V, Opel Astra GTC, Toyota Celica, Scion tC.

It needs to be defined in the rules, or any car which meets the rule criteria has to be accepted. The large majority of the cars meeting this criteria, sporty compact model, are FF or AWD. Only a handful are RWD, and of those which are, many are R/R. Many of them also fall into the Hot Hatch segment.

[Sayonara]

My apologies, I did not mean to imply that you didn't know what a sport compact was; I intended to provide a general frame of reference for the "We Will Not Build Cars For This Competition Until TofuWarrior Defines What A Sport Compact Actually Is Because It Is Apparently Completely Subjective And We Do Not Like This" movement.

(Seriously, TofuWarrior, it's hard to think about building a car when you haven't defined what you actually want us to build.)

[HighOctaneLove]

My apologies, I did not mean to imply that you didn't know what a sport compact was; I intended to provide a general frame of reference for the "We Will Not Build Cars For This Competition Until TofuWarrior Defines What A Sport Compact Actually Is Because It Is Apparently Completely Subjective And We Do Not Like This" movement.

(Seriously, TofuWarrior, it's hard to think about building a car when you haven't defined what you actually want us to build.)

My car has been accepted for the competition and it's wheelbase is 2.81m so the Norman-Vauxhall entry is legit in size as it has a 2.74m wheelbase... Use my car as the upper scale and virtually all of the bodies qualify!

As for a frame of reference; TofuWarrior is heavily influenced by Initial D and the JDM scene. Build a car that echoes these sentiments and I think you'll be accepted for this competition, no worries!

[strop]

So what on earth are we supposed to make of the comment, "it's not very compact" then!? xD

Also yes, Initial D had its Truenos and Miatas, but it also had Lancer, Skyline, Civic, S17, 240SX, RX-7, Supra, NSX, 350Z etc. Some of the latter aren't compact and some of them definitely not RWD! So even if we echoed the sentiment we would really appreciate some explicit guidance

(That said I know more than enough to make an entry now. If I used trackpaduser's Miata body that would definitely qualify...)

[np1993]

I shall whip up something fun for this competition. Can we use car bodies provided by the 3D modelling community? I could make something sweet with the not-miata body