The official AMW thread

[TheTom]

Hey everyone! Today i'm going to show you the new design for the AdVance and the Dragonfly.
The AdVance is first, to build up the tension because i know the Dragonfly is what you're really interested in So let's talk about the AdVance a little bit.

As before, this is a luxury family van with a big V8. It certainly doesn't look "normal". This time, i tried something new on the headlights. I chose a set of already finished headlights and then placed vents underneath them to make the headlights transparent, which means i was able to put my own headlight fixtures on a given shape. I'm probably gonna use this technique more frequently and i have used it before, in the Cottam Relay design contest. On the back, there's a mix of old-school and new-school. Some big, rectangular red taillights and a few white LEDs.



Inside, there's 5 seats, luxury interior, luxury entertainment, all driver aids except launch control, and adVanced safety options.
Under the bonnet, you'll find an all new 7.0L V8 with 515hp and plenty of torque, but not enough to cause any significant wheelspin thanks to the AWD system. The AWD is also what helps this car get from 0-100km/h in just 3.5 seconds on medium compound tyres, despite 1700kg weight and a 6-speed manual gearbox. And yet, the car will use 10.48l/100km which is pretty acceptable given the power and weight of this car.


The price for the new 7.0L is 75.000€, and i would say that's a fair price because this car has no rivals and because it's high-quality, fast, and built for everyday using. The kids will like the V8 noise, i can tell you that


Now for something that would probably scare the kids off, the new Dragonfly. You know what this is already. It's a supercar (or even a race car) in a hatchback's clothing.
But this time, i'm very serious about that one. There have been some significant changes.
The looks have obviously changed. There's the big, vulgar grinning mouth that you might remember from the first few generations, but the headlights are all new. Also, as you can (not) see, there's a lot of wings and lips on the front and also on the rear end. The taillights are pretty much the ones from the previous generation, turned upside-down. So it looks pretty familiar, doesn't it?



But what's definitely new is the engine. Yes, it's still the same 4.0 TT V8 block, but it has been tuned a lot. The power output went from 825 to 1103hp and that, my friends, makes for some pretty incredible numbers.



Along with the significant aero changes, as well as some more suspension tuning, the results can clearly be seen on the track:




So it's more than 8 seconds faster around the Automation track, compared to the previous generation. That, however, doesn't make it the fastest hatchback on the forums. It's beaten by a front-wheel-drive CRX-style hatchback from Gryphon Gear, the Windcutter. While the Dragonfly has over 400hp more, it weighs twice as much and can't get the same g-forces in the corners. But that said, i'm happy to take 2nd place in the hatchback category. The Dragonfly takes the crown in terms of acceleration, though. But that shouldn't be a surprise.
Costs went up to 175.000€ due to the significant engine and aero changes, meaning it's still less expensive than a Ferrari 458 and can actually out accelerate any real world stock car over the quarter mile. It'll also out perform more than 90% of today's supercars on a race track. So i'd say 175.000€ is a fair price.

Greets,
Tom

[TheTom]

working on a new Mantis already. Not done with it yet, especially with the rear end. Here's a teaser of what the front might look like.



Stay tuned, i'll upload the finished design within the next couple of days

Greets,
Tom

[TheTom]

Thanks to a bit more motivation and spare time, i was easily able to finish it today!





Greets,
Tom

[SeriousSimon]

The headlights... they... they remind me of Zoidberg... and he is coming at me... ahhhhhh I personally don't like them, they look weird to me.. but I have to admit they fit the name totally and they're different for sure.

To not only critisize, I can say that I do like design and concpet of the AdVance, I can really see such a car rolling on the street.

[TheTom]

Thanks for your feedback! If anything, i'm trying to do something different and i know not all people are going to like that. Why am i trying to be different? Because i think real world cars are starting to look pretty similar to each other, especially german cars. All Audis look exactly the same. Mercedes doesn't have a lot of variety in their designs, neither does BMW (excluding the i3 and i8), Porsche or Opel. It's a good way of making their cars recognizeable, but after a while it just starts to get boring. And this is what i'm trying to avoid.
For the AdVance, i think it would be something that the whole family would enjoy. Mom will like the comfort and the space it offers, dad will obviously like the power, and the children will like the noise.

[SeriousSimon]

I agree totally, modern car designs, especially the examples you've mentioned, all head in the same direction. Though I personally like the Mercedes A-class. Of course, we#re luckily not bound by the same laws. Our cars can sell to whoever we want them to and we don't have to worry about salepredictions etc at least yet So the more creative the design, the better. Either you'll be inspired or you will understand where your own preferences are and what you don't like. Either way, keep em coming!

[TheTom]

It's time i share something about myself here. I really miss cars like the Honda S2000 or the Mazda RX-8; small, affordable sports cars with high-revving NA engines, especially the S2000 with its 2.0 I4 sounds really nice. Today, we don't get a car like that anymore. There's the Toyota GT-86 and its sister models, but that isn't really satisfying if you want to enjoy the power and sound of a high-revving I4.
So, how to make this sort of car come to live again? Maybe with a small front-engined, RWD, 6-speed manual coupe that makes 250+hp and weighs less than a ton?
Challenge accepted. Here's the Phoenix that will make this car class rise from the ashes again!

On the front, you get aggressive and modern looking headlights, some chrome on the upper and lower grille, a sporty bodykit with some thin white LED indicators and circular foglights.



On the rear end, there's a wing, 2 exhausts and some futuristic taillights as well as some more chrome and vents.



Under the bonnet is the heart and soul of this car. A 2.0L NA I4 that revs to 9000RPM and makes 255hp. Despite accelerating this little coupe from 0-100km/h in 4.8 seconds, it'll use only 6.66l/100km, which is 35.3mpg (US). You might also notice the weight distribution of 51.4/48.6 which is pretty close to 50/50, ensuring you'll enjoy this car's handling.


Inside, there's 4 seats with standard interior, about 35-40% sound insulation, basic entertainment, all driver aids except launch control, and advanced safety options.

At this point, you're probably wondering what the price for this brilliant little car is. Given the fact that the chassis is aluminium and the panels are Polymer, i think 27.500€ is a fair price. That's less than the 300hp 2.0 Sport T version of the Mantis, but it will be 0.1s faster from 0-100 and it will be easier to drive.
You can have it in classic orange (as displayed), fire red or sun yellow. There's no discreet colours for this car because this is a car that wants to be seen, something that stands out of the crowd.



Greets,
Tom

[SeriousSimon]

Love that you explained your thought process behind this car and I agree, cars like an RX8 and Honda S2000 just don't exist these days.

You have executed the idea well, though I can hardly believe how a high-reev engine with 255 hp would need less than 7l/100 km, but that's just the way the game handles the numbers.

While I like the simplicity of the front grill and the headlights, the bottom for me is a little too overloaded , as sometimes less is more. The rear with its horn-like taillights is fresh, yet you could have done it more excitingly, I am sure.
Last but not least, for that price.. this car... well..

[TheTom]

Thanks for your feedback, i really appreciate it!
I think less than 7l/100km is actually pretty realistic because the fuel mixture is 15.0:1, and that's why this engine has an efficiency rating of 26.48%. On top of that, the engine only weighs 99.8kg, and the car itself weighs less than 1000kg and it has a pretty good drag coefficient. I'm sure this is not how real world car factories build a sports engine, though. I mean, this one has 5 valves per cylinder, 100 cam profile, and then 15.0:1 fuel mixture plus race exhausts. But it works

This car is probably going to out perform the RX8 and the S2000, but it's also supposed to be everyday usable, and i think it is because of the high tameness and the suspension is not very stiff.
Do you have any suggestion for making the taillights more exciting?

[SeriousSimon]

Ideas I have thousands of, but of course this can be merely an inspiration for you in the best case, I would never say: This is better because..

Everyone has their own ideas and styles and I like that and it was mainly a question of what you want to do. The rear of the chassis you have chosen for the coupè is by default quite massive and wide. Either you make it seem less wide or you even go and underline how much "junk" this one has in the trunk. The exhausts are very big, I have used smaller ones. I liked the idea of yours to use the angles for the taillights so I picked up on that and added a few angles.
Again, this is just one of a thousand directions you can go with and possibly you will find my rear terrible, but at least then you'd know what you don't want to do for sure.

[TheTom]

I think your design is good, but it changes too much in my opinion. You know, the outer shape of the taillights (which i made with a vent) point almost looks like eyes, and the indent for on which the badge is looks like a wide open mouth. The ends of the vents fit perfectly to the indent on one side, and they point towards the wing on the other side. This whole arrangement is the center of attention.
In your design, that aspect kinda gets thrown away completely. I'm not saying it looks bad, but it changes the character of the car.
By the way, the exhausts are big because car enthusiasts who like the S2000 will probably like the noise from these big exhausts

[SeriousSimon]

Told ya The purpose of this for me was just to give you a different approach so you would take it from there.. I knew your headlights were more sophisticated of course, I did not even want to attempt to create them the same way you did. About the exhausts I can not say much.. I tend to use too many realistic measurements when adding exhausts. Of couse I want sound, but I also don't the police to stop the car because it violates the laws of how much noise an exhaust can/should empower.

[TheTom]

I get your point but i don't think a 2.0L I4 will be louder than some road-legal supercars like a Pagani Zonda with the 7.3L V12 What i actually meant was not the loudness but big exhausts make for a lower pitched noise, so you're gonna get a nice deep burble like on the S2000 or even a Golf GTI on idle. My engine doesn't have mufflers, and neither does this guy's S2000: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKLRefmVVyU
So maybe it's gonna sound similar, and that's good enough for me

[TheTom]

Alright, guys. Prepare for a long post.
Sometimes in life, you have to make small changes, sometimes you have to make bigger ones. And sometimes, a few smaller changes make a big difference.
For the smaller changes, i redesigned the rear end of both the Mantis and the Phoenix. The Mantis' rear just needed a little bit of spice, and the Phoenix's taillights were extremely polarising.




Then, i made small changes to all the engines currently found in the Mantis. The big difference is that they no longer use 16V with double-VVT and VVL, but 20V with double-VVT instead. This helped me keep the same kind of power output while making the engines at least 10kg lighter and that does make a difference. The eco versions are now even more economical, and the Sport versions are even sportier. Plus, the Sport NA of the Mantis uses the same engine as you find in the Phoenix, and the Sport T model uses a turbocharged version of that engine. I'm not going to post the screenshots of all the engines right now, maybe another time if someone's interested. What's most important is the results, right?!
But wait one moment. There's more news. You can now have all the 2.0 versions with optional AWD, rather than RWD which will remain standard for all models. But before this generation, you had to pick RWD and there was no AWD option available. AWD costs an additional 1000€ on top of the base car price.

Alright, let's begin with the 800cc version with 80hp, a 10.000€ car that... drives. That's all it does. But it's not as slow as you'd expect from an 80hp car, plus it's very economical. Both of these attributes come from the overall weight of the car, which is less than 800kg because it gets basic interior, no entertainment and standard safety features. Like all other Mantis versions except the HP, its chassis is made from Aluminium and the panels are Polymer. Also, again like all other Mantis models, it only has 4 seats. WHY ONLY 4 SEATS?! Because this is a hatchback for young people who enjoy driving, not a family hatchback. Therefore, its rivals are not Golf, Audi A3 etc. but Alfa Romeo Mito and others. In addition to that, who of you has sat in the middle of the back row in a "5 seat" car already? It's freaking uncomfortable. The one in the middle is always gonna get squeezed.
Anyway, back to the car. Here are its stats:



Next up is the 1.6L which still makes 125hp but now has an incredible 3 Nm more torque than before. From this version onwards, you'll get standard interior, basic entertainment, all driver aids except launch control and advanced safety. This car is 10kg lighter than its previous generation, and with longer gear ratios the fuel consumption has dropped even further. You will now get 72mpg (US) or 85.6mpg (UK) which is 3.27l/100km. In a 1.6L petrol car. This car is an example for the economy rule #1: Good engine + Light body = Economical car. But it's not boring at all because it's RWD and weighs just under 1000kg, which means that even with the longer gearing you'll go from 0-100km/h in 8.0 seconds, and that's only 0.2 seconds slower than the 240hp Ford Mondeo Tournier Ecoboost which costs about 20.000€ more. The price for the 1.6L Mantis is still 17.500€ or 5.833€ right away and then 195€ per month over the next 5 years.



Then, there's the eco version of the 2.0L engine. There's also a new nomenclature for all the 2.0L models. first is the purpose, then 4wd or not, then 2.0 and then turbo or not, for example the Sport4 2.0t is the fastest version because it's the turbocharged version of the sport engine and it's 4wd.
Now, the eco version of the 2.0L engine has always sold a lot of copies because it's just hard to find any rival. There aren't honestly a lot of cars out there which make 160hp while using less than 4l/100km. With RWD, you'll have lots of fun while using next to no fuel for only 19.000€ / 6.333€ right away and 212€ per month. The AWD is better suited for you if you want to be a bit safer and not risk crashing your new car very easily (even though the RWD has a pretty good tameness ratio already). The AWD will cost you 20.000€ total or 6.666€ right away and then 223€ per month.



But if you wanna have a bit more fun, there's the Fun version. The NA now puts out 214hp and uses just a tiny bit more fuel than the previous generation. This version will already beat the Golf GTI. The RWD will cost you 20.000€ or 6.666€ right away and 223€ per month, the AWD costs 21.000€ or 7.000€ and then 233€ per month.



But if you do not only want to beat the GTI, if you wanna laugh at it instead, then you'll have to buy at least this version. The turbocharged Fun version. With 241hp, you can even go and hunt some BMWs while knowing that at the end of the day, they will have to stop for fuel before you. At 22.000€ (7.333€ + 245€ per month) for the RWD or 23.000€ (7.666€ + 256€ per month) for the AWD, it's also a lot less expensive than a BMW with comparable power output.



The fun versions are nice, but the really cool stuff happens with the following two versions. First, the Sport NA version. It now uses the same engine as you find in the Phoenix, which revs up to 9000RPM and makes 255hp. In a hatchback like this, that's quite a lot. It's not that much more power, compared to the turbocharged Fun, but it's waaay more responsive and louder as well, so it gives you a very sporty feel for the car. The RWD costs 23.000€ (7.666€ + 256€ per month) and the AWD costs 24.000€ (8.000€ + 267€ per month). This version is quite a bit more economical, compared to the previous generation Sport NA.



If that's still not enough power for you, don't worry. Because the turbocharged Sport engine will definitely make you happy. With now 305hp, it's 5hp more powerful than the Golf R. But the Golf R costs about 40.000€, whereas the sport 2.0t will only cost 25.000€ (8.333€ + 278€ per month) and the sport4 2.0t will cost 26.000€ (8.666€ + 289€ per month). The AWD really, really pays off for this engine version because it's powerful enough to compensate for the extra weight of the AWD system, and it's the first engine that't powerful enough to cause noticeable wheelspin on the RWD version. The AWD does 0-100km/h in 3.9 seconds which might surprise quite a lot of people when you're racing between the lights.




Finally done with this post... Oh wait, i almost forgot the most exciting thing!
There's a new Mantis HP too!!!
First, let's look at the design of the front end. By the way, the HP comes in Mantis Green as standard.
Compared to the standard Mantis, you get extra chrome vents on the upper grille, a bonnet scoop and extra white indicator lights inside the headlights.



On the back, you get 2 wings, 4 exhausts and a black bodykit. Also note that in the exhausts, there are additional slightly smaller exhaust pipes to create a more high-quality looking exhaust system.



Under the bonnet, there's a new engine. The 4.2L is gone, now it's a 4.5L NA V8 that screams all the way up to 9500RPM and makes an astonishing 750hp. And while i may admit that it takes 649 man hours to produce, this is what finally makes the Mantis HP a proper supercar, and there would be a limited amount of people who can afford it anyway.



And when i say "proper supercar", what i mean is: 2.4 seconds from 0-100km/h (on sports compound tires, no semi-slicks), 9.6 seconds over the quarter mile, 351km/h top speed and positive downforce which helps generate almost 1.3g in the corners. Despite all that power, and despite the fact that this car's handling is very neutral with a slight touch of oversteer at the very end, it's as tame as a house cat.



The price for this car is now 150.000€. I know that's as much as the Dragonfly used to be. But then it's as fast as the Dragonfly used to be, and the engine noise will definitely make an excuse for the price.


That's all i have to say for today, i'm gonna share the Mantis HP platform with you guys. Leave me some feedback if you want to

Greets,
Tom

[SeriousSimon]

Before I say what I wanted to say about the rear of the Phoenix, let me say that you have a totally interesting approach to lights in general. It is not my personal taste, but I can see the effort behind it and it is unargueably nicely designed.
Now, I might suffer from some kind of neurotism here, but the unsymmetry in the headlights of the Phoenix drives me nuts to an extend that I can't look at it again even. Makes me feel really uncomfortable. That's just me though!

You have a deep and thorough explanation as to why you made the changes and which changes and while some of it was TL:DR, I still caught the point and I wanted to say: thumbs up!