[Car Builder] Suspension settings and how they look

[PMP1337]

Before you think I am spamming, the forum is slow paced. And when I come here write one suggestion another springs to mind.

Suspension settings.
Why didn't you put the values in understandable measurements?
Spring Rates in kg/mm or Lbs/inch
That would make it easier to see how hard it is.
Also having sliders. You made so well on the brake screen that every time I change tab to the susp i go "wtf is this s***?"

Suspension settings are common on racing games. Take a look how they do it. GT, LFS, AC. Having familiar looking setting screens will make it easier for starters.
Having setting screens familiar to the first glance is good for sales. Someone watching a stream can easily understand what is going on instead of losing interest over unknown numerical values.

Now that I think about it tyre tab has lack of sliders too. But at least on that there is values and the tire code shows up in big letters.

[Der Bayer]

The suspension settings are in reasonable units, they are just not displayed. Spring stiffness is in N/m, Dampers in N/(m/s).

kg/m or similar things (mass per travel) are no proper units for spring stiffness. They might seem easier to understand for many people, but they don't make any sense physics-wise.

[xABSOLUTIONx]

while on topic - damper travel is controlled by ride height?

[Der Bayer]

Maximum spring travel is. Dampers don't have a length in the game (as damper forces are dependent on the velocity of wheel travel), but springs (springs forces are dependent on wheel travel) are progressively becoming stiffer near the end of maximum travel (simulating buffers). So at the end of the wheel travel range the wheel will be slowed down by the springs.Thus indirectly the imaginary damper travel (and the simulated speed) is dependent on spring stiffness and thus wheel travel or ride height.

[PMP1337]

The suspension settings are in reasonable units, they are just not displayed. Spring stiffness is in N/m, Dampers in N/(m/s).


kg/m or similar things (mass per travel) are no proper units for spring stiffness. They might seem easier to understand for many people, but they don't make any sense physics-wise.

Kg/mm make sense. Per each Kg added to the car, it compresses a millimetre. Plus it gives you instant reference for how much compression on the springs just from the car weight.
SI units don't make since on the scale of the setting. At least use N/mm and save some zeros on the values.

[Der Bayer]

If N/m or N/mm makes no difference, that's just how it is displayed.

kg/mm is scientifically not correct, because springs are not compressed by mass but by force. Put 1kg on a spring in space and you see: The spring will not be compressed. I know that this example is stupid and that on earth the altitude makes nearly no difference and I understand your point of kg/mm being more understandable for the average guy though. But it's just not correct.

[Dragawn]

The suspension settings are in reasonable units, they are just not displayed. Spring stiffness is in N/m, Dampers in N/(m/s).


kg/m or similar things (mass per travel) are no proper units for spring stiffness. They might seem easier to understand for many people, but they don't make any sense physics-wise.

Kg/mm make sense. Per each Kg added to the car, it compresses a millimetre. Plus it gives you instant reference for how much compression on the springs just from the car weight.
SI units don't make since on the scale of the setting. At least use N/mm and save some zeros on the values.

Springs do more than just carry the car. Like when you'd drop a car, or when a car comes down from a jump, it comes down with the force of not just its weight, but also with the force of its kinetic energy in the Y-axis (m*Vy²/2). What the spring does is "push back" against this force by getting compressed. If a spring is too soft, it will fail to exert enough force, and the car will bottom out. If the spring is too hard, it will exercise too much force, putting the downward movement to a quite sudden stop, giving occupants a shock. After the kinetic energy from the fall has been absorbed, the spring would normally bounce, because of the absorbed energy, making the car bouncy. To counteract this there are dampeners to soothen the "sinusoidal" movement, helping the spring getting back into its rest position of being into compression just enough to carry the car.

Also, meters make more sense than mm, since meter is the standard scientific unit for length of travel. So from an entirely scientific standpoint "N/m" makes perfect sense.

[PMP1337]

The suspension settings are in reasonable units, they are just not displayed. Spring stiffness is in N/m, Dampers in N/(m/s).


kg/m or similar things (mass per travel) are no proper units for spring stiffness. They might seem easier to understand for many people, but they don't make any sense physics-wise.

Kg/mm make sense. Per each Kg added to the car, it compresses a millimetre. Plus it gives you instant reference for how much compression on the springs just from the car weight.
SI units don't make since on the scale of the setting. At least use N/mm and save some zeros on the values.

Springs do more than just carry the car. Like when you'd drop a car, or when a car comes down from a jump, it comes down with the force of not just its weight, but also with the force of its kinetic energy in the Y-axis (m*Vy²/2). What the spring does is "push back" against this force by getting compressed. If a spring is too soft, it will fail to exert enough force, and the car will bottom out. If the spring is too hard, it will exercise too much force, putting the downward movement to a quite sudden stop, giving occupants a shock. After the kinetic energy from the fall has been absorbed, the spring would normally bounce, because of the absorbed energy, making the car bouncy. To counteract this there are dampeners to soothen the "sinusoidal" movement, helping the spring getting back into its rest position of being into compression just enough to carry the car.

Also, meters make more sense than mm, since meter is the standard scientific unit for length of travel. So from an entirely scientific standpoint "N/m" makes perfect sense.

If N/m or N/mm makes no difference, that's just how it is displayed.

kg/mm is scientifically not correct, because springs are not compressed by mass but by force. Put 1kg on a spring in space and you see: The spring will not be compressed. I know that this example is stupid and that on earth the altitude makes nearly no difference and I understand your point of kg/mm being more understandable for the average guy though. But it's just not correct.

I'm finishing mechanical engineering. You are preaching to the priest here.
I know all about spring compression and using SI units.
But this is a game, not an engineering software. You have to drop the scientific douchebaggery and make concessions for normal people to get a better understanding.

BTW, Dragwan, kgf is a measurement of force. So if it rustles your jimmies so much just have kgf/mm. There, just like in granturismo so people can copy setups.
Whats is better?:
98000 N/m (Not even stated ingame)
9.99 Kgf/mm
It's a matter of making the game more accessible, more on par with mainstream games.

Anyway, my suggestion still stands, add the units to the suspension values.

[Killrob]

I fully agree that units need to be added to the suspension settings, that is needed for consistency alone.