Too many dead challenges!

[KLinardo]

Already got 2 entries this morning that I will check when I'm not on my phone. So I'm happy to see interest picking up.

[Tycondero]

My last 3 or 4 competitions, only 1-2 users entered, and this is frustrating because you expensed time to create the challenge.

Other competitions, like the Group B, only 1 race, and later.

It is mostly because lately a lot of people do not finish what they start! At least that is my opinion in this matter. Due to the lack of interesting and properly finished challenges lately my automation fever has cooled down somewhat. I would like to say to all people that start a challenge: understand what you are getting into. Challenges are not done in 20 minutes or so and do take a significant amount of time in checking the cars and writing the reviews/results. People that never organised challenges before are ought to participate in a couple prior to organizing one themselves, at least then you have a small clue what it takes. Every dead/significantly delayed challenge sets a bad example. Also start simple and organise something unique and not another hot hatch or sports car challenge. Also simple time laps around any automation test track is not going to be good enough to simulate a proper race. This is mostly due to BRC challenge, which got people spoiled, at least I do.

I know that feel bro. Anyone remembers Formula Automation 1990? ;_;

Sadly, I thought it would end up like it did from the start tbh. Too bad though.

[victorgarcia]

I know that feel bro. Anyone remembers Formula Automation 1990? ;_;

yes! i had the fastest car! only one race then vanished!

[pyrlix]

Its very sad to see that the challenge subforum is dying of a bit.
The problem of dying is caused by - in my opinion - a couple of reasons.

1. Hosts disappearing
That is a serious issue... hosts abandon the challenge, people get disappointed and may lose their faith in other challenges or just stop entering those because they can't be sure that it will happen again and making all the work worthless. If you host some kind of challenge, finish it. Hosting one is a huge amount of work, think wisely before starting one and dont just abandon it because you thought it wouldnt be so much work.

2. Stuff is too complex
The most recent example I have is AMWEC. Its a really amazing challenge - kudos to sillyworld - concept seems really good! But I lost interest after i saw the 2+ page ruleset, which happend to some challenges here already. I like complexity, but reading through lines of rules and having to tab all the time just to double check if everything is allright? Thats not for me.

3. Stuff is uninteresting
There are some challenges that sound dull or are not interesting enough to make people participate - which can cause a disappointment for the host and let him cancel it or people think "Eh, noone is participating, not interested" or "My nemesis is not participating, cant beat him there". Make it interesting, make people WANT to participate!
Add variety to your challenge, make it stand out. The BRC stood out by random tracks in the first iteration and then had a full race simulation with live race commentary in the second iteration! Its hard to beat that, but if you do something clever people will still particpate in a race that is not that fancy or exciting to watch. AWMEC is an outstanding example in that case.
I see a huge trend for reviews right now... but soon that will shift, because having a ton of reviews will make it bland.
Innovate, go back to older challenges and revolutionize those! I haven't seen a TEC Styled challenge since 2013! Or combine stuff with real life, like NormanVauxhalls idea of choosing the race tracks by real lottery numbers.

4. Planning
If you make a challenge... try to make it so that people have enough time to enter. And please try not to set your challenge at the same time of other seemingly interesting ones. Once again i can only speak for myself, your opinion might be different. Right now I see maybe 1 interesting and open challenge on page one, while there are 9 running and 1 closed. Either they all started on the same day or I simply missed those. Don't let them run too long aswell, people will lose interest! On Brobot races a weekly interval for Training, Qualify and Race was pretty optimal. For normal races something like results every 2-3 days seems okay too! For reviews: once they are done.
And now comes something that will go hand in hand with #5.

5. Updates screwing with Challenges
While I siad that you should let people have enough time to enter, it shouldn't be weeks or months. Updates will come and some point and break your challenge, and you _really_ don't want that to happen. For that i recommend watching the Little Dev Updates, as they can give you a rough idea how close the next update is. Plan ahead! Mostly you can finish the praperation of the results in one or two days after the deadline, posting them can obviously take longer.

@Tycondero:
Yes people are spoiled by Brobot - that is pure fact. But to be honest, for how long could you keep people interested with simple track times, innovation had to come at some point. Brobot is one way to innovate, AMWEC another. My next challenge is in preparation already, I just wait for Brobot 2.0 to release and can instantly start the thread about it. And by that you can exactly sense: I am not hosting a race without Brobot anymore, I don't see a simple track-time as "satisfying" as they were in the beginning anymore.
Christmas season is also a bad idea for challenges in general. I hosted the first communist trohpy around that time and it ended up to be quite a pain because there were the holidays where i drove away for a few days and got off track. I can remember saying "tomorrow last result" and ultimately releasing it 7 days later.
However: Another Communist Challenge is coming!

[BlastersPewPew]

However: Another Communist Challenge is coming!

WOO!!! That one was fun and had awesome narrative, cant wait to make a build for that!

[squidhead]

But I lost interest after i saw the 2+ page ruleset, which happend to some challenges here already

I actually liked the strict rules. It also makes for some interesting research as to who chose what and how he implemented with what results. All the cars comply to a very strict ruleset, but there are so many ways to go about them.

[strop]

Hm, some good points have been raised (particularly by pyrlix), I'm going to have to update the sticky soon with advice on timing.


On this note, now is as good a time as any to reiterate to anybody who was wondering that yes, a BSLL2 is going to happen, but will only happen after August 2016, or when the turbos have been updated, whichever is later. In the meantime I am considering holding a derivative but not story-related shakedown event to start working on the balance, but there are no details as yet.

[pyrlix]

I actually liked the strict rules. It also makes for some interesting research as to who chose what and how he implemented with what results. All the cars comply to a very strict ruleset, but there are so many ways to go about them.

Like I said - personal opinion. Strict rules can be nice, and his simulation seems really good. But for me it was too much to think - yes it sound stupid, i know. Maybe next AMWEC I participate to see how it plays out.

@strop: Good idea with the sticky! People should read that at all circumstance BEFORE hosting.

[Madrias]

I've had a couple ideas for challenges, but I also keep in mind that if I start one, I know full well I have to be ready to judge 20 cars with a few tracks, write at least 3 reviews, and plan a fair-yet-balanced rule-set that keeps complexity low, options high, but keeps things interesting. And I know at this exact point in time, I'm not yet ready to take on 20 new cars to judge, spend nearly 30 minutes per track testing all 20 cars (with the mildly-increased load times), form the results into an interesting chart with the appropriate points for the championship, post the results, and then go spend another 30 minutes on the next track testing the cars... up until the moment the challenge ends. Then having to write the reviews for the cars that won it.

Maybe one day I'll be in the mood to do it. Until then, I'll stay behind the sidelines and participate in a few random challenges here and there.

[koolkei]

pretty much^

[Sillyworld]

The most recent example I have is AMWEC. Its a really amazing challenge - kudos to sillyworld - concept seems really good! But I lost interest after i saw the 2+ page ruleset, which happend to some challenges here already. I like complexity, but reading through lines of rules and having to tab all the time just to double check if everything is allright? Thats not for me.

Thanks AMWEC has received a good support
And yes, a pretty long ruleset That's one of the first things I learned doing the challenge, I coud simplify the rules. I wanted kind of an even competition, but I went overboard with the rules.

And I learned other things, like don't bite more than you can chew (because you have to stand and deliver!), and don't do challenges during finals