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The Farm Truck Challenge (Results, 3rd Place Announced)

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KLinardo

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Post Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:16 pm

Re: The Farm Truck Challenge (Results, 5th Place Review)

asdren wrote:Wow, great work. Such an awesome review.
...
Anyways, cool truck, awesome review.


Really appreciate the comment. I know my challenge design isn't different from most we see here, but I hope the effort I put into writing these up really helps make this challenge little different. Especially for those who didn't "place". I was always disappointed to build an entry and not hear anything about it because I wasn't in the upper echelon. I hope I gave everyone enough to stay interested, even without my fancy calculations like the awesome AMWEC or BRC.
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Madrias

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Post Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:41 pm

Re: The Farm Truck Challenge (Results, 5th Place Review)

KL, if it helps any from the guy in 21st place, I appreciated the effort. One, it let me know that my time was appreciated for building the truck. Two, you did something very rare in the blurbs: you pointed out faults that prevented the entry going further. I don't know how many challenges I've gone into where I've likely made the same stupid mistakes over and over again because no one tells you "Hey, turbochargers on cheap cars are a really, really bad idea" or "Don't use double wishbone suspension on pickup trucks" when they review.

I appreciate the one-liner blurbs as a "Consolation prize" because it lets me know I participated, and they do help the bitter taste of defeat go down a little easier. What you did, on the other hand, was above and beyond the call of duty. Not just did you offer what some would call a full review as a consolation prize, you told us the faults of our trucks. Unusable power bands, improperly configured suspension, lack of safety, you name the fault, and thereby we can learn from it. On top of that, you went beyond that and also mentioned praise for some of the trucks. You made small stories in the reviews, compared trucks to each other, and in general, gave everyone that "I feel good" feeling because we got more than the usual, "This truck had tons of power, but was let down by its other faults," type reviews. It rewarded everyone for trying.

So, KL, I do appreciate the effort put forth into the mini-reviews, as well as the effort that goes into the full reviews. It's enough to keep me interested, unlike some other challenges I've been in, where I looked, saw I was in last or second-to-last place with a number by my car, and never came back for the reviews of the top group of cars.

As for those who did the one-liners, or weren't doing much for those who didn't place well, don't take this as bitter criticism. It's not meant as angry finger pointing, nor meant to call you out. I understand that it takes a lot of effort, and that a blurb for the losing cars slows progress toward the actual reviews.

To be fair, I've seen a lot of challenges where the one-liners were great. I appreciate them on their own level because it acknowledges, "Hey, you participated in this!" It makes me feel more like the challenge operator was actually looking at the cars, instead of pure numbers in a spreadsheet.

At the same time, I can understand some challenges are purely about the numbers. I've got nothing against those who just put up track times when that's what the challenge was about. I've got nothing really against those who post the numbers for the 'after-the-math' portion of their contests. I just wish that more would do the little bit more to tell people, "Hey, maybe in this type of challenge, this wasn't the best idea," yet do it in a gentle way.

Anyway, I know I've gone on a bit, and I apologize for that, KLinardo. As I said, I appreciate the blurbs. I appreciate the one-liners. I know it's a bunch more work to do either, but it really does improve the ending of a challenge for me, at least. I don't feel left out because I built the car, truck, or van that ended up doing poorly.

If it's not too much work, I'd love to see the blurbs return in the Stage 2 part of the challenge.
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KLinardo

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Post Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:47 pm

Re: The Farm Truck Challenge (Results, 5th Place Review)

Madrias wrote:If it's not too much work, I'd love to see the blurbs return in the Stage 2 part of the challenge.


Now the jury is still out on that one. It took a loooooooooooooooong time to get to our most recent post. I enjoyed doing the blurbs though. Time constraints though, man.

I may do the blurbs after I do the reviews. I may not do them at all. I may say "screw it, I hate my personal life enough to pull this stunt twice consecutively."

Comments like yours, though, certainly make the time worth while and I'm really glad you enjoyed the competition and the blurbs thus far. Hopefully I don't disappoint in future challenges. Seems as if I set myself a really high bar. :D
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Madrias

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Post Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:56 pm

Re: The Farm Truck Challenge (Results, 5th Place Review)

Even if you cut the blurbs down by half and kept it to the strengths and weaknesses, they'd be good. I think the biggest thing with challenges is that those of us who lost end up trying to figure out what we did right and what we did wrong. Prime example being my double-wishbone suspension, rather than McPherson+Solid Coil, causing my load capacity to be way too low for a truck in this challenge. Things I did right, well, one could argue that I picked the right engine for the job, if only I'd backed it up with reasonable suspension.

At the same time, I can understand cutting the blurbs out until after the main reviews, or just not doing them at all.

It may be a high bar you've set for yourself, but then again, maybe it will inspire others? I know if I ever do a challenge, I'm going to try my best to do a similar thing, because, as you said it yourself, it is disappointing to enter a challenge and just not hear anything because you weren't in the top three. Even one-liners make it worth it at times, because if nothing else, they let you know that your entry was looked at as more than a set of numbers in someone's spreadsheet.
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Sillyworld

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Post Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:02 pm

Re: The Farm Truck Challenge (Results, 5th Place Review)

KLinardo wrote:I may not do them at all. I may say "screw it, I hate my personal life enough to pull this stunt twice consecutively."

I can totally relate to that :lol:

That review was pure gold (as well as the blurbs), I read it like it was a TV car show review :D
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Manche

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Post Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:41 am

Re: The Farm Truck Challenge (Results, 5th Place Review)

well, at least I didn't embarrassed myself, I made a cheap truck that did okayish.
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KLinardo

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Post Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:54 am

Re: The Farm Truck Challenge (4th Place Announced)

4th Place
TheTom, AMW Buffalo - 735.59 Points
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After grabbing an early lunch with some of the FTC testers at a local diner, (It's a Jersey thing...) I was handed the keys to my second vehicle of the day. I had surrendered my O11 keys for a set to the Buffalo produced by well-known Austrian manufacturer AMW. I was pleased to see this truck be entered into the competition and I was curious to see if a company with such a wide lineup could manage to bust into the American Pickup market. I was sure that AMW had plenty of engineering experience, but did they have what it takes to make an American Pickup?

By the looks of things, the answer to that question seemed to be "yes." From the outside, though, you could tell that this truck was a bit of an foreigner. If you look at a Ford, GM, Dodge, or many of the trucks entered into this competition, they tend to go with a large, imposing, yet relatively simple grille design. The Buffalo certainly had a presence, but I'm not sure if it fit the American Pickup mold. I also hated the tail light placement. Their molding required the tailgate to have a cutout to accommodate them. It also meant that you couldn't load wide items like plywood, or a couch, or your ATV straight into the bed. You needed a crane to get wide items over the bed rails and that's just a foolish mistake. Not to mention, you reduce the surface area of the external bench seating you have available, which is particularly important to me for farm use. Of course, after a few minutes of griping to the team about an innocuous blunder on the behalf of the design team on a pre-production model, I realized that I was complaining about a side dish while the main course was getting cold in front of me. So I decided to move past the non-scored issues I had, and dug in.

My first taste of the mighty Buffalo was under the hood where I found an all-AlSi 5.7L MOHV V8 with Direct Injection. It was a modern twist on a classic pushrod design. The motor was also massively under-square with a bore measurement of 3.642", but a stroke length of of 4.173" which warranted a rev limiter at a mere 5200 RPM. The motor managed to produce a modest 345 Ft-Lbs of torque at a very early 1600 RPM and a sub par 248 HP at 4800 RPM. The torque was quick, but it slowly trailed off and dropped to almost 250 Ft-Lbs at the rev limiter while the HP built steadily, leveled off, and stayed constant for the last 400 RPM. The engine's cam set-up coincided nicely with that early torque and the DI helped optimize fuel usage where the engine was making the most of its stroke. I must be honest though, I was expecting more out of a 5.7L V8, although the engine was pretty bulletproof but cheap despite the expensive alloy and use of good quality components in its construction. Not to mention, you could barely hear this thing run. I could see American buyers looking into aftermarket exhausts or taking a hacksaw to the stock setup to get rid of one of those pesky mufflers. I decided to reserve final judgement until my foot was firmly planted against the firewall.

Before I put the motor to the test, I wanted to do my walk around to see exactly what I'd be launching down the country roads and backwoods trails. The Buffalo was a little smaller in the cab area than the O11, but it still had 4 doors, although I hesitated to call the rear two "full doors" even though that's what they were supposed to be. The bed was plenty long to load up, much like the O11 (minus my tailgate issues from earlier.) The truck was an all-corrosion resistant steel body on frame construction with MacPhearson Struts up front and a solid axle and leaf springs in the rear. This thing had a completely active suspension though in order to maximize ride comfort. We would definitely have to see how that worked in practice. I was also again surprised by the OEM wheel choice. For starters, I wasn't a fan of the rims, but that's not important. What caught my attention was how narrow these wheels were. 215/75R20 up front and 225/70R20 in the rear was all you had in the way of rubber. I was stunned to then see a rim offset of 1.575". I would have rather had that in rubber all the way around. I was concerned for offroad capabilities as well as how much traction this thing would have under braking. The 20" rims were going to give me plenty of braking power, but could the tires transfer it to the pavement? I decided I might need to be a little more cautious with this truck than the O11.

Inside, the truck was fitted with 6 standard seats and the slightly smaller cab was making itself apparent. I was curious as to who AMW used to decide how wide each seat needed to be. They certainly didn't use my girth as a benchmark and I had to fight the seat belt a little to manage to get it around me. (For reference, I'm 6' 1", 280 lbs. with 52" shoulders/chest. I'm big pretty much everywhere.) The seats were okay and the radio only had a CD player. The safety consisted of 2 airbags and the 6 seat belts with the middle of the bench seats being lap belts only. The seats did not recline because they were a bench and moving them back far enough for me to comfortably situate my legs was a pain. If I had a guy in the middle of the front bench, we would definitely be fighting for legroom, especially with the transmission tunnel of the 4x4 being very apparent in the middle of the truck. I also just personally hate not having a console, and this wasn't helping my pleasantness. The quality of the interior was pretty much on-par with the O11, albeit standard. What stood out to me though, was the safety rating. This was the least safe truck of the Top-5. Mostly due to the lack of good safety equipment and the longer stopping distance. The tire size certainly didn't help much here with a braking distance of 147' 9" which was one of the longest we tested. This was despite very good brakes, but more on those later. Caution was going to be paramount with this truck. I didn't want to be on the receiving end of any collisions in the Buffalo.

The truck was pretty easy to drive. It was a little lighter than the O11 and weighed in at 5366.0 lbs. You could feel that weight savings in the steering as well as in the drive line. I was infuriated at this trucks acceleration though. I know I complained about the O11, but I was instantly wishing I was driving that again. 10.1 seconds for a 0-60 sprint. Are you kidding me? 50-75 MPH wasn't much better with a time of 7.3 seconds. This truck had a 6-spd auto and the truck just didn't have any power once you were out of the low gears. Although, it got a decent fuel economy of ~14.7 MPG, give or take a tenth depending on how you drove it and how you calculated it based off of miles driven, and gallons pumped when you filled it up next. There was no info display in the Buffalo, just analog dials and an odometer. The truck also barely registered 0.7g on the skid pad and ran a 17.73 at the strip which was the second slowest of all the vehicles tested and the slowest of the Top-5.

At this point you may be saying to yourself, "Kyle, how in the world is this truck 4th? You've only complained thus far." You're completely right good reader, but fear not, for I have run out of things to really gripe about. When we loaded up for the utility testing, the Buffalo showed its might and earned plenty of points. To start, this truck was the second most reliable of the Top-5, it had the best utility rating of the Top-5, it was the second most practical overall and missed the honor of most practical by 0.1 raw points. It also had the second highest environmental resistance. It was also decent offroad, and the median of the Top-5 as far as drivability went. It wasn't really prestigious or comfortable, but it was cheap. How cheap say you? Well if you were good at negotiating, you could probably walk out with the model, as tested for less than $30k. Yes, that is less than $30,000. The MSRP is an astounding $30,030.00 with the 5% profit. Have you ever heard the saying "you get what you pay for"? Well with the Buffalo, you also do not pay for what you don't get. While that may be a whole laundry list of things you can read above, this truck is cheap because of it. The only truck we tested that hits you less in the wallet is the Repreni and you do not get nearly as much truck with that design.

So, why 4th place? The Buffalo is remarkably cheap, much more so than much of its closest competition, and it does astoundingly well in the areas that mattered most to our testing. In exchange, you give up speed, comfort, and safety. That seems like a decent trade off right? Well, not really. The problem is, that in search of being a superior bargain, the designers at AMW really missed the ball on the fact that this is some people's office and some families' only means of transportation. You certainly wouldn't want to drive your kids around in a truck that clawed and scratched its way to a 3-star overall safety rating. It was probably the worst modern body truck we tested when it came to safety. It also goes to show that the little things matter in a exercise of building a truck. You can't just say that your the best value for the price. That will really only work in fleet sales. People are looking for something to draw them into the interior of their vehicles. The truck was amazing in extracting the full utility and practicality out of a budget. I really did not think a truck with such a low price tag could score this high. The truck did everything that it needed to do, but nothing more. It was that "more" that separated it from the podium finishers. In all honesty, I had actually liked my time in the O11 more than I did in the Buffalo, and I think that speaks volumes.

Now like I indirectly stated, this is by no means a bad truck. The Buffalo is probably the most accessible pickup that can get work done that I've ever seen. You don't even have to settle for a V6 base motor, and I know there's more to be had in that 5.7L power plant. Towing, the truck did well with early torque that encouraged you to stay low in the rev range. Not only is the motor durable, but in everyday use, you're not going to wind out the gears and keeping the tachometer low will add miles onto your engine's wear parts' lifespan. The brakes had plenty of power left in them, even when under heavy braking with a trailer. Vented discs that measured 375mm in the front and 350mm in the rear exerted so much force, that the ABS was often times put to good use when the narrow tires just gave up. It also wasn't a terrible interior and you had every driver assist save for launch control (which you would never need in this truck anyway). It was an average standard truck otherwise. Like I said, fleet managers will be all over this thing. Not to mention, if you were looking for a bargain in the Repreni, you have so much appeal on tap from the Buffalo to try to convince people to save their money to just buy a better truck for another few thousand dollars. With the right sales and financing tactics, this truck will own the budget truck market.

The final prognosis was that this truck just couldn't be the best on the budget. The podium finishers decided to spend a little more money and find points that were simply out of the reach of the Buffalo's budget. Had the money spent and points gained been perfectly linear and negatively associated, the Buffalo would probably sit atop the leader board. However, if we learned anything from the Buffalo, it's that buyers will value some stats more than their monetary costs. Thus, the budget champion brings home 4th place overall.
Last edited by KLinardo on Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:22 am, edited 3 times in total.
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TheTom

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Post Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:17 am

Re: The Farm Truck Challenge (Results, 5th Place Review)

When Sportiness and quarter mile time are two of the most lightly weighted criteria, you shouldn't complain about lack of acceleration :D This really was designed to be a working man's truck. Lots of early torque to help with towing, great utility and practicality, reasonable price tag and low running costs, comparatively speaking. Also, a safety stat of 56 is not bad by any means. If you have a frontal accident with, say, a Vauxhall Astra you will certainly be coming out on top because this truck has a long nose and a big V8 for absorbing the crash before you get hurt.

Anyway, nice review and I'm happy to be 4th :D I never expected to do this well and I'm looking forward to stage 2of the Farm Truck Challenge!
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KLinardo

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Post Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:40 am

Re: The Farm Truck Challenge (Results, 5th Place Review)

TheTom wrote:When Sportiness and quarter mile time are two of the most lightly weighted criteria, you shouldn't complain about lack of acceleration :D


You don't understand the frustration Americans would have with a slowly accelerating truck. Just trust me lol.

This really was designed to be a working man's truck. Lots of early torque to help with towing, great utility and practicality, reasonable price tag and low running costs, comparatively speaking.


I think that came through in the review. If it didn't, I meant for it to.

Also, a safety stat of 56 is not bad by any means. If you have a frontal accident with, say, a Vauxhall Astra you will certainly be coming out on top because this truck has a long nose and a big V8 for absorbing the crash before you get hurt.


Consider yourself graded on a curve. The competition ranged from the high 40s to the mid 80s and there weren't many folks in the 56.5 range, especially for those using thecarlover's body.

Anyway, nice review and I'm happy to be 4th :D I never expected to do this well and I'm looking forward to stage 2of the Farm Truck Challenge!


It was a really good truck overall and it earned its position. You definitely made some great design choices. Hope to see the sporty Buffalo make up for the lack of acceleration in FTC Stage 2.
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KLinardo

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Post Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:33 am

Re: The Farm Truck Challenge (Results, 3rd Place Announced)

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AirJordan

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Post Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:50 am

Re: The Farm Truck Challenge (Results, 3rd Place Announced)

You must be kidding... :D
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Puffster

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Post Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:06 am

Re: The Farm Truck Challenge (Results, 3rd Place Announced)



We have an expression here in Norway that goes "å hoppe etter Wirkola" which roughly translates to "like jumping after Wirkola". Wirkola was the worlds best ski jumper by far for several years. So for us petrolheads it comes to something like "driving after Ayrton Senna", you're just not going to be as good. Well, I think you just set the bar for feedback/reviews after competitions on the forums, great work!
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asdren

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Post Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:17 am

Re: The Farm Truck Challenge (Results, 3rd Place Announced)

Holy sh*t dude. I am speechless. I am not through the video yet but this is AMAZING.
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asdren

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Post Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:20 am

Re: The Farm Truck Challenge (Results, 3rd Place Announced)

You guys did an amazing job.

I really threw the truck together in a short time, that is why there was a difference between the model and the trim fixtures, some illogical choices like the 7 gears, aluminum wheel, and VVT. And yes, hydropneumatic was the only way to get those offroad sway bars.

I was not expecting much, therefore i am super happy i made it the 3rd. Even more happy now that i am 3rd, because the wait for my review would have killed me :D
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Sillyworld

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Post Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:06 pm

Re: The Farm Truck Challenge (Results, 3rd Place Announced)

Puffster wrote:So for us petrolheads it comes to something like "driving after Ayrton Senna", you're just not going to be as good. Well, I think you just set the bar for feedback/reviews after competitions on the forums, great work!

Every times it gets betters, first the blurps, then the full review, and now the video review :o ... next time it will include stop motion of a clay-model of the second place with an special apperance of Jason from Engineering Explained and his white board :lol: Seriously, great work!

asdren wrote:And yes, hydropneumatic was the only way to get those offroad sway bars.

You can also have offroad sway bars using Air suspension. Which (I think) is only available using Double wishbone.
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