PTT Pro Touring Tour

[strop]

I got that vibe. I liked the idea.

Our main problem was that we weren't sure about any of the aspects of competition. Was it a competitive event? Was it not? Exactly what kind of things would our cars be required to do? What was the itinerary? With the BSLL, the premise was simple but I was careful to be as clear as possible about exactly what and how things were scored (and as a result was actually very happy with the variety). After all, few of us would be particularly keen on signing up for something without knowing what it might entail.

[Manche]

I got that vibe. I liked the idea.

Our main problem was that we weren't sure about any of the aspects of competition. Was it a competitive event? Was it not? Exactly what kind of things would our cars be required to do? What was the itinerary? With the BSLL, the premise was simple but I was careful to be as clear as possible about exactly what and how things were scored (and as a result was actually very happy with the variety). After all, few of us would be particularly keen on signing up for something without knowing what it might entail.

it would entail typical racing, with traveling having influence on the scoring, have a breakdown you lose points, have a crash, your performance gets compromised in some way.

there would be a possibility of adventuring and doing crazy stuff just like in BSLL and depending on what zone the caravan was. face real danger

[KLinardo]

My only critique is that you should have even started working on the final (pro toring trim) cars despite I told you many times not to do it, that made it all MUCH more complicated.

What? I don't know how that would have changed anything. We knew our cars would be restricted to the old body and modern tune of an old motor or by using one of your crate engines. The issue was the rules kept shifting after the original submissions of old cars were required. Would I have submitted the smallest car I could manage while still dropping a Big Block into it had I known there would be an insane fuel efficiency requirement? Absolutely not.

It did not matter whether or not my car had been built. What mattered was that I knew I needed to make a 432.6 CI motor get somewhere between 19 and 38 MPG to go 800 km. With my vehicle, it turned out to be 28.2 MPG to make it 800 km which is no easy task when you're trying to build a race car... I was able to make 600 km at 21.2 MPG happen at the sacrifice of downforce and horsepower though. My biggest issue overall was that rules kept falling from the sky after I had submitted my 1969 vehicle. I was placed in a predicament where I had a few days to make a complete revision in order to be more competitive under the rules, or to completely tune down my motor to barely make the 600 km without fuel.

Strop really hit the nail on the head with everything else, so I'll stop here.

[Leonardo9613]

Manche, word of warning for you. Don't change your rules part-way through the event. On the somwos, I wanted people to make their cars as realistic as possible, that is why I guided them to do it. Some people with whom I was discussing the rules thought thtat I should hide the racing part and only reveal it later to people. I thought that would be unfair, therefore I laid all the rules and what I was planning to do clearly from the start. Even though some people didn't take part because they thought it was too complicated, no one had any issues or troubles with the way the challenge would work. Take that into consideration next time, please.

Stupid me had posted this on the wrong thread.

[koolkei]

Manche, word of warning for you. Don't change your rules part-way through the event. On the somwos, I wanted people to make their cars as realistic as possible, that is why I guided them to do it. Some people with whom I was discussing the rules thought that I should hide the racing part and only reveal it later to people. I thought that would be unfair, therefore I laid all the rules and what I was planning to do clearly from the start. Even though some people didn't take part because they thought it was too complicated, no one had any issues or troubles with the way the challenge would work. Take that into consideration next time, please.

Stupid me had posted this on the wrong thread.

hey +1 post for you

also... what's somwos??

i was also kinda let down.
since i already built a miniscule FF car with
206KM/h Top Speed
5.6s 0-60 2.8s 80-120

while still getting 20km/l+ with only 47.5 L fuel tank reaching exactly 969KM in a sinlge tank (i didn't reach that number on purpose)

[Leonardo9613]

also... what's somwos??

Check the link on my signature.

[koolkei]

also... what's somwos??

Check the link on my signature.

oh the challenge

abbr. yeah i was a bit late to participate in that...

[07CobaltGirl]

after some conversations I think I better do the sensible things and cancel this contest until new notice because at first I thought I was clear, but now questions keep cropping up.

I better end it here.

My only critique is that you should have even started working on the final (pro toring trim) cars despite I told you many times not to do it, that made it all MUCH more complicated.

Thanks for the interest anyway.

You are welcome to do an event in the spirit of this one or to wait for me to get it toghether

Noooo!!!!! I love this type of event! BSLL is by far my favorite competition thus far (sorry Der Bayer, the BRC and CTC were both great challenges and excellent learning tools) in Automation!!! I said from the get-go this was a spin on BSLL. The role play and storylines were fucking awesome, and some really great racing in between!!!!!! If it is any consolation, Manche, I have not started on the pro touring trim for my car yet. I want this!!!!!!

[Manche]

after some conversations I think I better do the sensible things and cancel this contest until new notice because at first I thought I was clear, but now questions keep cropping up.

I better end it here.

My only critique is that you should have even started working on the final (pro toring trim) cars despite I told you many times not to do it, that made it all MUCH more complicated.

Thanks for the interest anyway.

You are welcome to do an event in the spirit of this one or to wait for me to get it toghether

Noooo!!!!! I love this type of event! BSLL is by far my favorite competition thus far (sorry Der Bayer, the BRC and CTC were both great challenges and excellent learning tools) in Automation!!! I said from the get-go this was a spin on BSLL. The role play and storylines were fucking awesome, and some really great racing in between!!!!!! If it is any consolation, Manche, I have not started on the pro touring trim for my car yet. I want this!!!!!!

I would have out everything on the table in one move but I had the haunch that if i did everyone would submit a car that was optimized for the event instead of being clever and having to mod a car that may not be the optimal for the event ahead

[07CobaltGirl]

It actually makes sense to do it in stages. It's a race, based on a production street car. Got one? Good. Now make it a race car within these restrictions. Mark. Set. Go!

As one who is eagerly anticipating the return of the BSLL, I welcome a competition based on more than just building a super fast car. Build a car with a story, a legacy, and a legend! Now fit it with a driver who makes sense in the car.


EDIT: I should not need remind anyone what I build for BSLL. The M3 LS7 TT!!!!!!! Smokey burnouts? Check. Awesome platform? Check. Forward movement? Why? Did you not see I can do smokey burnouts?????????

[Madrias]

About the only reason I built ahead of schedule was because of the surprise that we needed to cover 800 km on a tank. Even then, I wasn't fully optimized for the run. (was testing to see if there was any way to get the required mileage, rather than seeing how much power I could get. Even at that, I was doing most of my checks on a spare car and not on the Captain)

With the intent mentioned to cut the distance down from 800 km, I would have run the Captain. Heck, as I'd said a few times, I'd have been willing to eat the penalties for running the car out of gas. Yes, I would have wanted to change the car because suddenly a fuel-efficiency requirement came up that most modern cars couldn't do, but if that'd been brought down to something more reasonable, I'd have put it in role-play that my rescue van has a carrying tank big enough to hold one gas-tank's worth of fuel. And I'd probably have made efforts to drive efficiently, if not the fastest between tracks.

Was the Captain optimized for racing? No. It's a family car at the core, with McPherson struts in the front and semi-trailing arms out back. It's meant to be comfortable and durable, yet inexpensive. Yes, I changed my engine plans from the V6 to the V8 because with another car, I tried tuning a V6 and found it to be something I need to work on. If this challenge does continue, I will be sticking with my 5 liter DOHC V8, because that is what Storm Automotive is good at: DOHC engines, even when it's not the right choice to make. Yeah, for an American car company, I should be using OHV, but I didn't feel it was the right choice on a reliability standpoint.

Again, there were two reasons I built my Pro Touring model ahead of schedule. The first was to see within a rough approximation where my gas mileage would end up, and whether it would pose a problem. The second was so that I could get a rough idea of what I wanted the car to look like. And if this competition continues, then yeah, I'll complete the build of the Pro Touring car. Right now, it's at a point where I know kinda what it's going to look like, but completely unoptimized. And it does awesome burnouts because the tires are too skinny. When we get the rules sheet for what we're allowed and not allowed to do on the second part of the build, then yeah, I'll finish it.

Actually there were 3 reasons I did it. The third reason was because I wanted to remind myself that this car is in fact in a challenge. That instead of it just being one of my lineup, it's one of my lineup with a purpose.

Now, yes, there were lots of questions asked. I think half of that was the fact that people somewhat wanted to know the rules for which we had to build to. That we were given rules for what we were allowed to build (Car of 1975 vintage or older, less than 12000 total cost), but also because some rules from the later half of the challenge were present and causing confusion. Things like finding out we're limited to +10 quality is fine. Suddenly finding out part-way through a huge debate about gas-tank travel distances that anyone who picked OHV would get +15 engine quality overall, I think it kicked a hornets' nest without being intended.

Would I have complained about OHV cars getting +15 quality? No. They have so much limitation because of their valvetrain that they're not going to easily overcome. I picked DOHC because I didn't want the reliability penalty caused by OHV. If I'd have known that in the later build I could get an extra 5 quality with OHV, would I have switched? No. In my designs, OHV is reserved for really cheap engines that go in little eco-cars that putter about a city, can't break 80 miles per hour, and get 40 MPG.

Now I understand this is a bit long winded, but my point is, I'm willing to run in this, tiny gas tank and all. My major experiments were done just to see the feasibility of the 800 km gas range, and if it's cut down to 600 or less, then I'll be quite fine with it. Someone provided evidence of the longest distances between gas stations, and I'd be willing to go with that plus a little extra (because no one, and I mean no one, checks to make sure their tank is 100% full after a race.) as the accepted range. As for having built my Pro Touring car, the only thing I've done that's of questionable legality is to put a wing on it because I thought it looked better with it. Otherwise, it still has the stock 4 speed manual, a basic limited slip differential, tires that are too skinny for the power it's making (and it's not making much), and a stripped interior. Which means, in the end, I've got a crap-load of tuning to do once we get the rules list for the Pro Touring cars.

[nialloftara]

Like madrias I had two cars from the outset, I wanted to build a standard low budget muscle car but I also wanted to try my hand at a Datsun 240z style coupe , so I built both and found that the Datsun had far higher Scores in the market so I went ahead with that design. The original 1966 trim only had a 2.7 straight six with just shy of 200hp it was a fun sporty gt car and I had tuned it for the highest market values, not for the contest. Now yes I did build a fully developed pro stock version, I bored stroked and boosted that old engine up to 3.2 liters and 700 hp I added AWD and spent some time balancing the gearbox and suspension. why? Because I thought it would be cool, fun to do, and I didn't have another car I liked tuning as much. I built fully thought out trims for that car at 5 year intervals and newer engine variations as needed up to the early 80's when the body age made it so undesirable that no amount of tuning could get a 80 or better in a market category. I'm still using the engine in other ideas. I made a history for the Cyclone far outside the scope of this contest, but I was fiddling with the pro street the whole time and wondering how I'd want the car to feel and run, by the time the fuel tank question came up I already had the history and the extra trims, I was just trying to keep my costs low and my power at 700 while still dealing with this unexpected twist. It was a fun build challenge to me, make this car to these criteria while staying cheap and not compromising on the power. i'm totally fine with just submitting my 1966 trim for this contest and finding out the rest of the rules at pro stock time, I'm sorry if my enthusiasm has made this a less fun challenge for you.

[Riso]

I would have submitted this car. I originally wanted to use something different but everyone already did and I am not really used to build sedans. Plus I would have finally gotten to use my 3.6L I6.

[koolkei]

and i made an FF mini cooper-alike car. with only 46hp.

like who the hell built FF race cars?
(aside from nissan and their LMP car)

[strop]

and i made an FF mini cooper-alike car. with only 46hp.

like who the hell built FF race cars?
(aside from nissan and their LMP car)

Not counting Touring Car series cars, of course.