BRC QuER - Hockenheim 1000 km 1976 [FIX]

[koolkei]

^if 2 cars are allowed, i may submit either a van or an FF just for giggles.

@nerd. holy fudge that venting. MOTHER OF VENTS

[TheBobWiley]

well..... Nerd certainly showed up this time around! On another note, so close to breaking that 2:18.00 wall I can taste it.

[conan]

I now wonder if I should pull a Vikus and have fast car that blow up very early...

[TheBobWiley]

The new revision may guzzle gas a little too much now, hopefully there will be one more pre-season practice so I can see how bad the damage is to my economy. Went from 118 kg/h to 133 kg/h, need at least 2 more pit stops now, but I DID IT, sub 2:18.00

Switching from a maxed out V8 to maxed V12 dropped half a second.... only time will tell if the extra thirst is worth it.

[strop]

That is some very very good cornering! I find that the cornering stats for the FR cars seems to be a lot better than for the MR cars. The MR bodies are quite finnicky to setup (not to mention less driveable on average, meaning they're a poor choice all around for BROBOT challenges). As I said before, this body seems to be more competitive due to improved rear traction because of the weight, can anybody confirm this?

It seems that nobody will learn anything new if I submitted anything else for the time being, so if this has not been noted already, I reiterate that I've withdrawn from this event, so please don't run my car!

[AirJordan]

strop, the one that inspired me to find the balance of my car is withdrawing. Times are changing.
I tried some wagon bodies but the just didn't cut it for me. Horrible aero and still less grip than MR. It really amaze me what Bob has achieved with this crossover.

[DeusExMackia]

That thing would look fantastic out on the track if this was all real. A a whole host of mid-engined super cars, wide body coupes, one-off race specials, massive spoilers and huge intakes, and in the middle of all of this is a crazy estate car with a quaint little wing on the top and two colossal exhausts at the bottom. Fabulous!

[koolkei]

i finally reached 2:21 and feeling contempt... until i see that^ higher drivability, higher safety, faster, and better cornering.
i'm just gonna hope for the best, maybe in the top 10 at least?(maybe not)

im gonna try to lower the fuel drinkage more rather than going faster

[strop]

As I was saying to somebody else, the reason I'm withdrawing is that a lot of effort has gone into making and also understanding the BROBOT system. It's a fantastic process but also one that I've been unable to keep up with due to time constraints, and that's why even if I enter nobody, including myself, will learn anything. Also my awareness of certain balance issues prevents me from enjoying this as much as I want to, so since I'm this far behind anyway I figured it was better if I took a step back and waited (probably until 2017).

That thing would look fantastic out on the track if this was all real. A a whole host of mid-engined super cars, wide body coupes, one-off race specials, massive spoilers and huge intakes, and in the middle of all of this is a crazy estate car with a quaint little wing on the top and two colossal exhausts at the bottom. Fabulous!

When we first started discovering the effect of various bodies on the contest that was kind of funny, but now it's starting to get a bit old for me. That's one thing that's getting me about this: I know that estates are viable on an even playing field, but on this particular challenge, it makes me think there's a balance issue in car handling (the whole cornering is not dynamic and therefore drivetrain layout is incorrectly modelled), which we've discussed before.

I tried a couple of other bodies in the few minutes I could snatch here and there and most of them had horrendous drag that made them not only ridiculously slow, but also ridiculously hard to handle at high speeds. This makes me think that issue somebody brought up with the effective area turning up in the tooltip might actually be quite handy (not just for this, of course, but in terms of car building in general).

[DeusExMackia]

When we first started discovering the effect of various bodies on the contest that was kind of funny, but now it's starting to get a bit old for me. That's one thing that's getting me about this: I know that estates are viable on an even playing field, but on this particular challenge, it makes me think there's a balance issue in car handling (the whole cornering is not dynamic and therefore drivetrain layout is incorrectly modelled), which we've discussed before.

I tried a couple of other bodies in the few minutes I could snatch here and there and most of them had horrendous drag that made them not only ridiculously slow, but also ridiculously hard to handle at high speeds. This makes me think that issue somebody brought up with the effective area turning up in the tooltip might actually be quite handy (not just for this, of course, but in terms of car building in general).

I guess the only real, definitive way to understand all of this is for @Der_Bayer to reveal all of the calculations that go into BROBOT. Then, we'd all be able to make perfect cars. But that would also ruin the fun of this. I have no doubt that there are some bodies that are just better than others; that's a wider issue in the game as a whole though (look at AMWEC 15, all the winners ran with the same body and it was noticeably better than everything else). Although BROBOT does seem to improve that (looking at the top 10 in BRC66, there is at least some variation), there's definitely some 'body elitism' going on that won't be fixed until there are way more bodies in the game to choose from, which would add more variation etc...

With regards to keeping up with the BROBOT system, that sadly seems to be something you absolutely have to do in order to be competitive. When I look at my entrant to BRC66, using a small 60s saloon chassis, I only entered very late on and hence wasn't able to take part in any of the pre-season testing. As a result, my car is profoundly uncompetitive. I'm pretty sure some of that is to do with the body (it's only being used by a handful of other competitors, and they haven't consistently been in the points or anything) but mainly due to the lack of practise I was able to have with it. I only got the time on the ATT down to around 2:25, which was nowhere near enough to keep up with cars that generally qualify even a few places above me, let alone the top 30.
Compare that with how my entrant to the BRC76 QuER has gone, and because I've followed the chat heavily and taken part in the test session, I reckon I've got a car that's a lot more competitive. It finished 24th overall in the test session, way more than my BRC66 entrant could ever do. In that sense, that's all been because I've developed my car right from the start and adjusted it based on what other people have been saying in chat. I've only been able to do this because I have a lot of free time (I'm currently a school student), which is all unfair on people like yourself who don't have the time to do that. To be fair, this entire competition has existed for less than a week where as previous BRC's have had at least 2 weeks of development time, but it's still not a fair way to do things.

TL,DR: The only way to be competitive is to keep with the chat constantly and have plenty of free time.


In other news, I'm submitting my (probably) final entrant to the competition. I've reduced my camber angles and wheelspin and just about kept the top speed, whilst also greatly improving the efficiency of my engine. It's cost me 0.17 seconds a lap on Hockenheim, and 0.1 of a second off my 0-60 time, but my absolute max fuel usage (according to Packbat's calculations) is roughly 118.56 kh/hr or 38.46 mins/tank, which is the same as my minimum fuel usage for the previous engine. Here's hoping the fewer stops will be worth the slightly slower lap times!

[8bs]

That is some very very good cornering! I find that the cornering stats for the FR cars seems to be a lot better than for the MR cars. The MR bodies are quite finnicky to setup (not to mention less driveable on average, meaning they're a poor choice all around for BROBOT challenges). As I said before, this body seems to be more competitive due to improved rear traction because of the weight, can anybody confirm this?

It seems that nobody will learn anything new if I submitted anything else for the time being, so if this has not been noted already, I reiterate that I've withdrawn from this event, so please don't run my car!

MR cars are less competitive in cornering comparing with FR imo too. The suspension/tyre is more hard to set up. But not impossible.

Nevertheless, i'm using the Esprit body just to try my best with that body, joining some fuel efficiency. Then there's the engine displacement vs weight problem. Too much weight affects cornering badly here! It has to be well balanced.

In the test race, i used the same V6 of BRC 66. Here, i swapped to a L4 Turbo. Dirvability went from ~40 to 30.

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The other car, is a small hatch 1.4 turbo. No hope for it at all!! lol still trying to extract the best of the tiny engine.

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Just hoping to reach 1000km without problems.

[thecarlover]

So I'm thinking of entering this, and since I haven't before, do we have any engine restrictions other the displacement-weight ration? I'm mostly wondering about fuel type.

[Packbat]

When we first started discovering the effect of various bodies on the contest that was kind of funny, but now it's starting to get a bit old for me. That's one thing that's getting me about this: I know that estates are viable on an even playing field, but on this particular challenge, it makes me think there's a balance issue in car handling (the whole cornering is not dynamic and therefore drivetrain layout is incorrectly modelled), which we've discussed before.

Stupid question: is there some way to write a function to derive yaw-rate handling behavior under acceleration and under braking from the zero-input yaw rate curve that's presently implemented? I know that turn-in behavior and stability on exit and all of those other dynamic factors are extremely important, but something as simple as constant-input cornering grip limits could be a big improvement to the simulation.

It'd kind of have to be included in Automation as well as BROBOT, but if that were feasible, that might improve things a bit.

So I'm thinking of entering this, and since I haven't before, do we have any engine restrictions other the displacement-weight ration? I'm mostly wondering about fuel type.

Fuel type is unrestricted.

[FrankNSTein]

I'm new here, so ... is there a way to calculate or test for tire wear?

Btw, expect a dead-efficient and reliable 4.6L V8 doing 460HP

[Packbat]

None that we know of. For what it's worth, the #5 Packbat car in the test was running -2.00° camber both front and rear, semi-slicks.