1600 TROPHY '92 - Sponsored by Znopresk [FINISHED]

[Leonardo9613]

Yes, I learned the hard way that revisions and forgiveness are a pain in the ass. My PMs got really messy, I don't know who is in, and I can't work on the cards and details in advance. Although, it might have been for my good, it gives me more time right now, that I should use to study for the finals.

[strop]

Yeah I'm not fussed, after all I'm used to those conditions normally and since it's stated in the OP (that I didn't read carefully enough), it's my responsibility for sending in an entry that doesn't qualify, so I won't complain. Also the build didn't take me long, I had fun with it, and if it isn't used in future rounds I'll just GG it up anyway and see how fast it can REALLY go

That said what I do agree with highoctanelove about is that it doesn't take long to check revisions, so I personally feel it fairer to accept a limited number of revisions (like Leo). That said, it all depends on how much time you really have, so that's not clearly always the best approach. I just feel a bit bad because my benchmark times are going to be like 0.2% faster than they should be.

[NormanVauxhall]

It's 00:25 am, I take my brothers at work (he works until late, he is a cook) and I have to wake up at 7:30. Only NOW I had the time to run the game and check some entries... and trust me, there are a LOT of other things that I would like to do.
I'm happy to host this championship, but I don't want to feel "pain" to coordinate it. I HAVE to be inflexible... Sorry guys.

[strop]

Its cool don't stress. This way you can run your tournanent more efficiently than I am at any rate

[HighOctaneLove]

It's 00:25 am, I take my brothers at work (he works until late, he is a cook) and I have to wake up at 7:30. Only NOW I had the time to run the game and check some entries... and trust me, there are a LOT of other things that I would like to do.
I'm happy to host this championship, but I don't want to feel "pain" to coordinate it. I HAVE to be inflexible... Sorry guys.

I disagree. You're CHOOSING to be inflexible, no-one forced you to be inflexible. No-one is sweating over getting the results of this competition on time and, frankly, what you do with your time is irrelevant to this competition. If you're that time-poor that you won't allow a re-submission for a simple error then you should re-think running any competitions. An unfair competition is worse than no competition at all.

If this was about a re-tune solely to make my car better I'd understand your position but right now I call bullshit and I think that, since no-one else wants to say it, due to the fact that I also invested my time designing a car for your competition, and since my time is neither worth more, or less, than your time, you should give everyone who were disqualified the courtesy of a single re-submission.

If you cannot understand why I find this so offensive, that's fine, just withdraw my car from your competition totally so that my cars results don't ruin your results sheet and so that you won't feel any "pain". I'd hate to inconvenience you and your busy life further than I've already seemingly done so.

[nialloftara]

Dude... chill the F**k out, the guy set up a great contest and made the rules clear on the OP. If you don't want to be a part of this fine, but just back out quietly and don't piss in the pool for the rest of us.

*Edit x2* Norman, you've got a great contest here and I for one eagerly await the results.

[strop]

Niall: was that edit addressed to Leo, or Norman, or both?

[nialloftara]

Pretty much anyone who's running a competition... but yes norman thank you.

[HighOctaneLove]

:shock: Dude... chill the F**k out, the guy set up a great contest and made the rules clear on the OP. If you don't want to be a part of this fine, but just back out quietly and don't piss in the pool for the rest of us.

*Edit* Leo, you've got a great contest here and I for one eagerly await the results.

*sigh* My car came in under the budget, followed every rule to the letter, but I missed the one about the tyres... Two button presses and my car would have complied. TWO BUTTON PRESSES!!! I didn't try to slip in a 2L v8, I didn't set the car up as a RWD or MR, it was fully complianced bar the tyre quality. TWO TICKS OF THE SLIDER!!! Go into your Automation and time that operation... OMG I've deprived him of all of 2 seconds! Shame that I cannot get my time back from trying to enter this competition to find out I slipped up on a simple change. No-one's going to suffer from a single re-sumbission or even simply adjusting my tyre quality to comply.

Read NormanVauhall's post; He states he won't allow re-submissions. This has, up to this point, always meant that you cannot continually tweak your car as others submit to try to remain competitive, NOT disallow erroneous entries. If you look at Der Bayer's comps they have no rigid rules, rather a spreadsheet has to be filled out etc. Therefore it makes sense for him to disqualify any faulty entries as the work required to fix mistakes is onerous and he gets lots of entries. This competition is nowhere near as comprehensive so using the Der Bayer example is smoke and mirrors. Disqualification for this kind of competition should happen if someone cannot comply with the rules after a warning and chance to re-submit. The thought that someone was potentially disqualified for naming their file wrong also aggravates me as that's just petty bureaucracy; strop was identified as the owner of the car so there's no point banning his entry for that.

If I thought the contest was a bad one I wouldn't have entered; I have no issue with the competition but I'm upset because I'm being excluded for a minor technicality that I tried to address within the timeframe of the contest (which I succeeded to do, BTW), only to be told that I'm going to cause the OP undue "pain" to change a slider by two clicks... I'm more shocked that everyone else is so comfortable with this

[strop]

It's not that so much as the internet rule: what the OP said goes. If I thought the decision contravened the rules as laid out, or else wasn't covered by the documentation, then I'd kick up a fuss (and have done so beforehand, on a der bayer tournament, no less!). In this case, perhaps the specific condition: "one pm only, no exceptions" would make it clearer, otherwise whatever. I'm respecting a decision as per basic sportsmanship, not agreeing with it.

[salen00b]

Well, on a brighter note, I posted my submission!

The Lizzott LSP Kebab 1600S.
Here are some pics!

[HighOctaneLove]

It's not that so much as the internet rule: what the OP said goes. If I thought the decision contravened the rules as laid out, or else wasn't covered by the documentation, then I'd kick up a fuss (and have done so beforehand, on a der bayer tournament, no less!). In this case, perhaps the specific condition: "one pm only, no exceptions" would make it clearer, otherwise whatever. I'm respecting a decision as per basic sportsmanship, not agreeing with it.

Fine, I don't mind being alone on this issue, because I haven't done anything wrong. The only thing unsporting about this situation is not being allowed to move a slider 2 places... Being told to shut up and take a chill pill only adds to my sense of being wronged. I HATE being called a cheater and that is what Norman has done to me; by not allowing me to rectify my mistake he's spitting in my face and making it public by not PM'ing me and putting my error on the OP is like being stabbed in the back

In real life I would say this to your face Norman but all I have is the internet...

Norman, your inability show the slightest flexibility in running this competition is ridiculous and self centred. If you were unable to run this competition properly then you shouldn't have attempted it. Even with the +2 slider my car complied with the spirit of your competition and I feel that your responses show a callousness towards those who have legitimate concerns with your position. Your choice of publicly naming and shaming those who didn't comply with the letter of your "laws" without any chance to redress them was designed to belittle and ridicule those involved and if I was to sum up your attitude in one word it would have to be "Fascist".

Delete the references to disqualified entries on the OP and in the thread and I'll get over my feelings of hurt. Leave them up and, while I won't do anything to you (nor am I implying as such), I'll have no choice but to consider you as a mean-spirited enforcer who has none of the finer qualities of humankind but rather tends towards the thuggish nature of our primitive selves.

[Hermann95]

:shock: Dude... chill the F**k out, the guy set up a great contest and made the rules clear on the OP. If you don't want to be a part of this fine, but just back out quietly and don't piss in the pool for the rest of us.

*Edit* Leo, you've got a great contest here and I for one eagerly await the results.

*sigh* My car came in under the budget, followed every rule to the letter, but I missed the one about the tyres... Two button presses and my car would have complied. TWO BUTTON PRESSES!!! I didn't try to slip in a 2L v8, I didn't set the car up as a RWD or MR, it was fully complianced bar the tyre quality. TWO TICKS OF THE SLIDER!!! Go into your Automation and time that operation... OMG I've deprived him of all of 2 seconds! Shame that I cannot get my time back from trying to enter this competition to find out I slipped up on a simple change. No-one's going to suffer from a single re-sumbission or even simply adjusting my tyre quality to comply.

Read NormanVauhall's post; He states he won't allow re-submissions. This has, up to this point, always meant that you cannot continually tweak your car as others submit to try to remain competitive, NOT disallow erroneous entries. If you look at Der Bayer's comps they have no rigid rules, rather a spreadsheet has to be filled out etc. Therefore it makes sense for him to disqualify any faulty entries as the work required to fix mistakes is onerous and he gets lots of entries. This competition is nowhere near as comprehensive so using the Der Bayer example is smoke and mirrors. Disqualification for this kind of competition should happen if someone cannot comply with the rules after a warning and chance to re-submit. The thought that someone was potentially disqualified for naming their file wrong also aggravates me as that's just petty bureaucracy; strop was identified as the owner of the car so there's no point banning his entry for that.

If I thought the contest was a bad one I wouldn't have entered; I have no issue with the competition but I'm upset because I'm being excluded for a minor technicality that I tried to address within the timeframe of the contest (which I succeeded to do, BTW), only to be told that I'm going to cause the OP undue "pain" to change a slider by two clicks... I'm more shocked that everyone else is so comfortable with this

Dude you should really calm down a bit! Running a tournament like this is a lot of work! The host has the freedome to set the rules and if someone doesn't like the rules he/she should simply not enter.
Btw. You can use Der Bayer as an example: His first rally challenge was run in a pretty similar style. No revisions, which means: if you don't meet the rules you are DSQ.

[Jakgoe]

Fine, I don't mind being alone on this issue, because I haven't done anything wrong. The only thing unsporting about this situation is not being allowed to move a slider 2 places... Being told to shut up and take a chill pill only adds to my sense of being wronged. I HATE being called a cheater and that is what Norman has done to me; by not allowing me to rectify my mistake he's spitting in my face and making it public by not PM'ing me and putting my error on the OP is like being stabbed in the back

In real life I would say this to your face Norman but all I have is the internet...

Norman, your inability show the slightest flexibility in running this competition is ridiculous and self centred. If you were unable to run this competition properly then you shouldn't have attempted it. Even with the +2 slider my car complied with the spirit of your competition and I feel that your responses show a callousness towards those who have legitimate concerns with your position. Your choice of publicly naming and shaming those who didn't comply with the letter of your "laws" without any chance to redress them was designed to belittle and ridicule those involved and if I was to sum up your attitude in one word it would have to be "Fascist".

Delete the references to disqualified entries on the OP and in the thread and I'll get over my feelings of hurt. Leave them up and, while I won't do anything to you (nor am I implying as such), I'll have no choice but to consider you as a mean-spirited enforcer who has none of the finer qualities of humankind but rather tends towards the thuggish nature of our primitive selves.

Hey! He is running this by his own accord, and is in no way obligated to cater to the problems facing you. He already has enough on his plate, and can be as self-centered as he wants during the competition. If you don't want to play, don't. Your "feelings of hurt" are of no concern to him, me, or anyone else, especially in such a trivial matter.

TL;DR: Shut up, you made a mistake, he made it clear what the consequences would be.

[HighOctaneLove]

Dude you should really calm down a bit! Running a tournament like this is a lot of work! The host has the freedome to set the rules and if someone doesn't like the rules he/she should simply not enter.
Btw. You can use Der Bayer as an example: His first rally challenge was run in a pretty similar style. No revisions, which means: if you don't meet the rules you are DSQ.

And I counter-argue that, since we're all human, a single re-submission (or even altering my original submission) wouldn't cause much "pain" or any pain in my case. As for the work bit, I didn't ask for the OP to run the comp, he CHOSE to run it, and when I stated his rules are too inflexible everyone wants to side with the OP rather than see that the OP is being unreasonable. I don't have the time/interest in hosting a competition so I don't start one; don't cry "pain" when you brought the responsibility on yourself. I paid the OP enough respect to take his competition seriously and I made an error which is being treated like I had the Antichrist driving my car whereas, in actuality, two clicks of the slider and my error is solved. Norman then chose to slather it over the forum rather than PM me. When I exercised my right to state my case for clemency I was attacked for "peeing in the pool". Standing up to unfairness isn't wrong. Saying that the OP's time is somehow more valuable than mine is wrong. Publicly shaming me without right-of-rectification is wrong.

The moderators need to make a standardised set of guidelines ruling these competitions because too many people feel that inequality is actually legitimate; Viva le revolution!!!