CTC - Car Tycoon Challenge #5 - 2014 [RESULTS]

[PMP1337]

People should discuss ways to improve, what works and what doesn't. That's what the forum is for.

I think you are taking it too seriously. I think it's safe to say that Der Bayer himself would be the first person to say that it's not completely balanced. But it doesn't really have to be. The variety in winners shows that we are no where near a hard limit in term of getting close to the optimal build. Der Bayer is directly dealing with the larger imbalances, for example, the trackday/supercar entries crossing over too much. Frankly, it's a forum game. A very, very good one. But the amount of effort that Der Bayer is putting into it so we can have a bit of fun should be taken into consideration. As he said regarding the rally a while ago. If people take it too seriously it spoils the fun.

On mods, great. It's always good to have more content. But for this, when one player has a thing that another doesn't, it's kinda unfair. But again, it adds variety. As long as the Van doesn't become a runaway winner I don't see a problem. Maybe we can sit a clause in, that if a modded body does particularly well, then it's DQed or something. But again, that's complicated and I think taking it too seriously. The only way to fully deal with it, is to ban it. Buuuuut.... I mean, it's a good thing to have it in. Not only because it adds variety but because it'll get people looking at the mods for the game. It may even get them to try doing their own. That can only be a good thing.

I'm taking it more seriously so that other players don't have too. I want this to have more people playing it and that only happens if there is no secrets to it. IE, make a car that makes sense and you will do good.
Also I worry a bit more because this game is a sort of basis to learn stuff to apply to the real game.

About the second paragraph. I agree completely.

I seem to continue producing some of the safest cars for their price range. Few people beat me in terms of safety.

Whats up with the car that has no headlights? Do flashlights duct taped to the car count as an optional extra?

Doesn't worry me so much not having headlights since it's a TD car. What worries me is that there is a table on top of the hood.

[frisco557]

So many sportscars and supercars, yet nobody else did a luxurius car. I have the market all for myself, maybe I'll even sell all 30 000 Oravan Medved for 400 000 apiece, that would be a record profit probably
My Bazant also has the stats to sell whole 1 000 000 planned production, although nobody in their right mind should buy a car that makes 0-100 in 74 seconds... that should be some kind of a record as well

too many people jumped into that market in the last challenge, so I'd be facing even more competition, so I did a premium fuel efficient hatchback and a fuel efficient large sedan.

[HighOctaneLove]

It's good that we have more bodies. But since bodies influence the stats so bad we should let the stats math be balanced first. I'm not saying there aren't Vans for offroad, Hyundai and Mitsubishy had vans like that. But tall bodies aren't better at off-roading than lower ones. It has to do with wheel base, axle distance, axle width, BUMPER HEIGHT, etc...

Unfortunately, if you look into it, no 4WD in it's factory form is that great for offroading. They all need mods to improve their ability to tackle more than a gravel road and the occasional washout. If you watch the show Dirt every Day on Youtube you'll see the extent of modding required to make any vehicle into a serious offroader.

With that in mind I think that a big box on wheels would be loved by offroader types as it'd allow them to store all their gear in the van or make the rear into a fold-out tent mansion! Also big 4WD's are just as unwieldy as a van so the difference in body height between the two is only a marginal difference. Like vans, 4WD's do roll over if driven badly. So with your concerns in mind, PMP1337, I'll only become concerned if someone builds a van (or future 4WD) that wins buyers off supercars or trackday cars... THAT would be unbelievable!

[pyrlix]

It's good that we have more bodies. But since bodies influence the stats so bad we should let the stats math be balanced first. I'm not saying there aren't Vans for offroad, Hyundai and Mitsubishy had vans like that. But tall bodies aren't better at off-roading than lower ones. It has to do with wheel base, axle distance, axle width, BUMPER HEIGHT, etc...

I just toyed around with a SUV body - and guess what! I can put ride height to 228 mm! Which is the medium setting of the huge modern wagon/sedan body.
Therefore bumper height is like... the almost same as ride height...

Also - before you complain about other vehicles you really should improve yours! A AWD car with a tameness of 38.2 - is that a joke?! For example Leo9613 Feynman S has only FWD, more power and a similar price to yours, including slightly higher comfort. FWD is worse for tameness due to torque steer and more wheelspin.
It just seems you want to make yourself look better if you say that everything and everyone is a problem.

Dude... some people!

With that in mind I think that a big box on wheels would be loved by offroader types as it'd allow them to store all their gear in the van or make the rear into a fold-out tent mansion! Also big 4WD's are just as unwieldy as a van so the difference in body height between the two is only a marginal difference. Like vans, 4WD's do roll over if driven badly. So with your concerns in mind, PMP1337, I'll only become concerned if someone builds a van (or future 4WD) that wins buyers off supercars or trackday cars... THAT would be unbelievable!

If its a cheap mid engined van?
However that could be balanced over prestige - big hunky vans are just not as prestigious as a coupe! And it probably will be! It is indeed an issue that needs to be sorted out.

I think you are taking it too seriously. [....] Frankly, it's a forum game. A very, very good one. But the amount of effort that Der Bayer is putting into it so we can have a bit of fun should be taken into consideration. As he said regarding the rally a while ago. If people take it too seriously it spoils the fun.

On mods, great. It's always good to have more content. But for this, when one player has a thing that another doesn't, it's kinda unfair. But again, it adds variety. As long as the Van doesn't become a runaway winner I don't see a problem. Maybe we can sit a clause in, that if a modded body does particularly well, then it's DQed or something. But again, that's complicated and I think taking it too seriously. The only way to fully deal with it, is to ban it. Buuuuut.... I mean, it's a good thing to have it in. Not only because it adds variety but because it'll get people looking at the mods for the game. It may even get them to try doing their own. That can only be a good thing.

Thats always one should bear in mind - its just ONE guy organizing it all for a bunch of people in this forum here. It is a very good forum game, it also helps alot for the makings of a buyer simulation for the Tycoon game I guess!
About mods - some will be included in the future, some not. Technically you could make a car that looks like garbage, but give it advantages by making stuff absurdly big or small and giving it a extremely low aerodynamic efficiency. However the amount that would require of doing such model is kinda high...
People could make advantageous car bodies that no one except them wants and use them for themselves (now I gave someone an idea...) - but grilles or badges on the other hand - they just add more aesthetical variety, which IS a very nice thing.

[Zabhawkin]

It's good that we have more bodies. But since bodies influence the stats so bad we should let the stats math be balanced first. I'm not saying there aren't Vans for offroad, Hyundai and Mitsubishy had vans like that. But tall bodies aren't better at off-roading than lower ones. It has to do with wheel base, axle distance, axle width, BUMPER HEIGHT, etc...

Unfortunately, if you look into it, no 4WD in it's factory form is that great for offroading. They all need mods to improve their ability to tackle more than a gravel road and the occasional washout. If you watch the show Dirt every Day on Youtube you'll see the extent of modding required to make any vehicle into a serious offroader.

With that in mind I think that a big box on wheels would be loved by offroader types as it'd allow them to store all their gear in the van or make the rear into a fold-out tent mansion! Also big 4WD's are just as unwieldy as a van so the difference in body height between the two is only a marginal difference. Like vans, 4WD's do roll over if driven badly. So with your concerns in mind, PMP1337, I'll only become concerned if someone builds a van (or future 4WD) that wins buyers off supercars or trackday cars... THAT would be unbelievable!

I wouldn't say we love the big boxes, they tend to not fit on the trails. A small box with big wheels that can weasle its way down a trail (think Jeep Wrangler) and similar.

As for out of the box capable 4x4's the Jeep Wrangler, Nissan Xtera, Toyota 4runner... just to name a few that I know to have good off road capabilities, not including all the pickup versions out there.

[Absurdist]

I'm looking forward to seeing how the Serano goes against my Thredbo. Clearly we are looking at the similar markets. I made a big mistake last time out and built too many, perhaps I have done too little now.

The main thing is we both beat the DESUDESUVAN. Because if it beats me in the categories I am aiming for, I will cry. Although I think the markets I've gone for might get flooded by Zaps. It's interesting to see how many sales the more offroad cars can pick up in the C$-M$$ Categories.

Maaaaan, this is intense!

[Der Bayer]

A quick test of how much offroad you can get at a reasonable price from a different body:

If you really spent some time you could probably even get the utility up into the high 80s and offroad even higher up. Other bodies, such as the minivan, can score even higher utility values, too. Of course, the van body can achieve high utility and high offroad at the same time, which makes it kind of unique at this point where we don't have many bodies. But it is not ridiculously overpowered. It just fits well into two or three target groups.

In the near future, all mods which are shared on the forums will be allowed (as long as they are reasonable, i.e. resemble realistic cars). At the point where there are tons of mods and I am not able to keep up with downloading, all mods will have to be banned.

[Absurdist]

What are the other stats on that? Tameness etc

[Der Bayer]

It sucks because I built it in 5 minutes.

[VicVictory]

(tameness = 0)

Nothing to see here, folks! move along!

[Zabhawkin]

The only problem I have with the van is it is very light, unless it is supposed to be a micro-van. One of them comes out only 100kg heavier than my small car.

[Der Bayer]

Tameness was somewhere in the 40s, but I didn't even touch suspension settings or driver assistance systems. It was a reasonable car but by no means optimized.

[xwing]

I don't mind the van having a high off-road, my E77 is nearly 60 with only front wheel drive. This competition and others helps the devs work out ballance issues like these.

Xwing... My L114 has a pretty high comfort, and is much cheaper.

It looks like my E77 is going to get beat out of the market though, some of its competition looks pretty capable across the board.


Edit: I did notice the weight of the van is way low.

Well, all those football players and sheikhs I aim at do care about the price... the higher, the better!

[HighOctaneLove]

I wouldn't say we love the big boxes, they tend to not fit on the trails. A small box with big wheels that can weasle its way down a trail (think Jeep Wrangler) and similar.

As for out of the box capable 4x4's the Jeep Wrangler, Nissan Xtera, Toyota 4runner... just to name a few that I know to have good off road capabilities, not including all the pickup versions out there.

From watching the various offroading shows and every offroader I've seen getting around you need a winch installed which also needs a bullbar installed (usually). I worked at Nissan (in Australia) and none of the Nissan offroaders came installed with a winch from the factory. Most 4WD's have optional diff-locks but if you missed the option or purchased 2nd hand you have to go aftermarket. Most offroad forums seem to agree that 20mm of lift is also needed to keep the undersides safe... My position that, because mods are required to make ANY 4WD truly useable offroad, from the factory most 4wds aren't ready for anything more serious than a dirt road or an easy beach run.

So worrying about in-game offroad stats for vans be crazy! Once people buy them they'll lift 'em, hack the bumpers, install light bars everywhere and knock out all the glass bar the windshield! Just relax and enjoy the ride...

[Reaper392]

The only problem I have with the van is it is very light, unless it is supposed to be a micro-van. One of them comes out only 100kg heavier than my small car.

My van is very light because it uses the ̶f̶l̶i̶m̶s̶i̶e̶s̶t̶ finest polymer on the market for all of its bodywork. It also saves weight by using the lightweight "look out of the window" entertainment package and by having an interior that does a very good job of existing, but not much else. If I had used a much cheaper steel body and added some entertainment and a nicer interior by using the money saved from the cheaper body, it would weigh about 400-500kg more than it does now