Ringmasters league

[Dragawn]

I don't think full-blown race setups fit this criteria. 20% efficiency rule seems fair, as it is generally considered a "streetable motor" characteristic, even for large V8 motors. Since there are no year restrictions, and relatively few engine restrictions, 2000+ and DI should make this readily achievable. And to be honest, I don't know about Europe or other parts of the world, but 98 octane fuel is pretty hard to find where I live! I know it varies around the US, but here in the Southeast, you get 89, 91, and 93 unless you go to one of the few places that does sell higher (at ridiculous costs). They do have e85 fairly readily available, but hardly "on every corner" still! FYI, my engine made about 300hp on 95....

Here we have 98 octane fuel as delux/premium pretty much at every gas station (in Belgium, and I think in all central Europe where I've been) Are you sure you're talking about RON though, and not AKI? 92 aki would equal to 98 ron octane, so I think that would make more sense.

[07CobaltGirl]

I don't think full-blown race setups fit this criteria. 20% efficiency rule seems fair, as it is generally considered a "streetable motor" characteristic, even for large V8 motors. Since there are no year restrictions, and relatively few engine restrictions, 2000+ and DI should make this readily achievable. And to be honest, I don't know about Europe or other parts of the world, but 98 octane fuel is pretty hard to find where I live! I know it varies around the US, but here in the Southeast, you get 89, 91, and 93 unless you go to one of the few places that does sell higher (at ridiculous costs). They do have e85 fairly readily available, but hardly "on every corner" still! FYI, my engine made about 300hp on 95....

Here we have 98 octane fuel as delux/premium pretty much at every gas station (in Belgium, and I think in all central Europe where I've been) Are you sure you're talking about RON though, and not AKI? 92 aki would equal to 98 ron octane, so I think that would make more sense.

Yes, I didn't think of that conversion. our 91 octane fuel is equivalent to Europe's 95 octane fuel. Sometimes I hate the US for it's "special measurements".....

[Dragawn]

I don't think full-blown race setups fit this criteria. 20% efficiency rule seems fair, as it is generally considered a "streetable motor" characteristic, even for large V8 motors. Since there are no year restrictions, and relatively few engine restrictions, 2000+ and DI should make this readily achievable. And to be honest, I don't know about Europe or other parts of the world, but 98 octane fuel is pretty hard to find where I live! I know it varies around the US, but here in the Southeast, you get 89, 91, and 93 unless you go to one of the few places that does sell higher (at ridiculous costs). They do have e85 fairly readily available, but hardly "on every corner" still! FYI, my engine made about 300hp on 95....

Here we have 98 octane fuel as delux/premium pretty much at every gas station (in Belgium, and I think in all central Europe where I've been) Are you sure you're talking about RON though, and not AKI? 92 aki would equal to 98 ron octane, so I think that would make more sense.

Yes, I didn't think of that conversion. our 91 octane fuel is equivalent to Europe's 95 octane fuel. Sometimes I hate the US for it's "special measurements".....

Change to the metric system already, darnit

[strop]

How about I wait until all the rules and restrictions have been decided until I declare any intention to submit anything. If you're going to start discussions about what is "in the spirit" or not, then far be it from my intention to disrespect that or ruin things for everyone else, but these are the kind of things that need to be ironed out early or forever keep your peace.

That said, there seems to be a lot of room for interpretation of what constitutes a non pricey street sports car. So the rules seemed pretty broad to account for a range of styles. Keep in mind that while my current suggested build has >1000hp it will probably also tip the scales at about 1600kg. Also keep in mind that there's no mention as to whether these cars have to be "stock" e.g. it seems quite feasible for a car to originally come with a radio but somebody decided to take it out to save weight etc.

Perhaps the way to balance this out is not to focus purely on the time. We all know what creates a fast time and so really the worth of the car oughtn't be based purely on the ring time. I don't know how this ought to be reflected in judging but we all enjoy a good story and imagining what the actual experience of the car might be like... So maybe more of that.

[Manche]

I think then it woul de appropiate to put a limit on fuel consumption and at least standard security...

also I will raise the engine price to if you really want to

[strop]

I have no objections with the engine price, it does encourage a little ingenuity...

But of course I'd defer to the host (you) when it comes to setting the final rules.

[nialloftara]

For my two cents I'd leave the rules fluid for about a week, and see what turns up. Anything that really strikes you as out of place for your contest can help you define the rules. Then once you've satisfied yourself on the restrictions you can post a new set and add a clean slate leaderboard with different classes by year and car design 90's sports car, 80's family saloon, 2000's supercar, as examples.

[Manche]

I have no objections with the engine price, it does encourage a little ingenuity...

But of course I'd defer to the host (you) when it comes to setting the final rules.

A thing I would put besides economy would be mandatory use of catalitic converters. any style would do.
I'd still want people to get creative with engine styles. just in case I have a v8 screamer, a turbo 6, a giant ohv v8, and a Big 4 banger turbo

[Dragawn]

In the spirit of the competition i've raised safety to premium, entertainment to standard and more sound isolation, should give something more production-esque

[Manche]

In the spirit of the competition i've raised safety to premium, entertainment to standard and more sound isolation, should give something more production-esque [/quote]

That engine of yours is very oversquare right?

[07CobaltGirl]

I have no objections with the engine price, it does encourage a little ingenuity...

But of course I'd defer to the host (you) when it comes to setting the final rules.

A thing I would put besides economy would be mandatory use of catalitic converters. any style would do.
I'd still want people to get creative with engine styles. just in case I have a v8 screamer, a turbo 6, a giant ohv v8, and a Big 4 banger turbo

With no year restrictions (a good thing IMO), catalytic converters is probably a tough one. Unless you set a certain year for them, as in the real world. In the US, for example, they were not "mandatory equipment" until 1975. Cars made before that time rarely, if ever, had one. This is reflected in-game, as regular unleaded fuel does not appear until 1970 and the catalytic does not appear until 1975. The course has been around since long before that, and should not exclude cars for that reason. Of course, cars made after their mandatory use should absolutely have one in order to be considered a "production street car". I'm also pretty sure their mandatory use didn't magically become mandatory in every country on the planet in the same year.

I'm also not sure interior should be a requirement either. There are plenty of cars with no entertainment options as standard equipment long into the 1990's, most often to keep them cheaper. I would think this is perfectly acceptable, but it will definitely take a hit in comfort and prestige. Perhaps a minimum on these based on year? (ie. 70's minimum of 10 on both, 80's minimum of 20, 90's minimum of 25, etc.) Safety should probably at least be basic for a production street car, as those are usually guided by manufacturing regulations. Higher would be better but basic would be mandatory.

The tricky part to making these rules is enforcement. Who is going to check all of the cars submitted, or will we be taking screenies of each screen in the designer in order to submit an entry? Either would be tedious for someone, so keeping it as simple as possible is best. Checking them would be the only way to be sure, but there is always just a good old fashioned "honor system"? Above all, I am definitely in favor of creative engines, chassis, and configurations. Perhaps the top times list could include the car's manufacture year to help make sense of the order despite times shown. I'm sure I will think of more. haha

[Manche]

I have no objections with the engine price, it does encourage a little ingenuity...

But of course I'd defer to the host (you) when it comes to setting the final rules.

A thing I would put besides economy would be mandatory use of catalitic converters. any style would do.
I'd still want people to get creative with engine styles. just in case I have a v8 screamer, a turbo 6, a giant ohv v8, and a Big 4 banger turbo

With no year restrictions (a good thing IMO), catalytic converters is probably a tough one. Unless you set a certain year for them, as in the real world. In the US, for example, they were not "mandatory equipment" until 1975. Cars made before that time rarely, if ever, had one. This is reflected in-game, as regular unleaded fuel does not appear until 1970 and the catalytic does not appear until 1975. The course has been around since long before that, and should not exclude cars for that reason. Of course, cars made after their mandatory use should absolutely have one in order to be considered a "production street car". I'm also pretty sure their mandatory use didn't magically become mandatory in every country on the planet in the same year.

I'm also not sure interior should be a requirement either. There are plenty of cars with no entertainment options as standard equipment long into the 1990's, most often to keep them cheaper. I would think this is perfectly acceptable, but it will definitely take a hit in comfort and prestige. Perhaps a minimum on these based on year? (ie. 70's minimum of 10 on both, 80's minimum of 20, 90's minimum of 25, etc.) Safety should probably at least be basic for a production street car, as those are usually guided by manufacturing regulations. Higher would be better but basic would be mandatory.

The tricky part to making these rules is enforcement. Who is going to check all of the cars submitted, or will we be taking screenies of each screen in the designer in order to submit an entry? Either would be tedious for someone, so keeping it as simple as possible is best. Checking them would be the only way to be sure, but there is always just a good old fashioned "honor system"? Above all, I am definitely in favor of creative engines, chassis, and configurations. Perhaps the top times list could include the car's manufacture year to help make sense of the order despite times shown. I'm sure I will think of more. haha

I didnt thoughtbaoput it much because I was expecting this to become a racing league with time and budget constrictions with stripped down street cars

[strop]

It shows just how complex things can get if we try to rigorously evaluate each parameter doesn't it! How far one goes depends on the stakes.

In light of this I'm personally going to put far less emphasis on trying to get the best time etc. Instead if I do submit things here I'll do a bit of a showcase to give you the story of the kind of car and its market.

[Manche]

It shows just how complex things can get if we try to rigorously evaluate each parameter doesn't it! How far one goes depends on the stakes.

In light of this I'm personally going to put far less emphasis on trying to get the best time etc. Instead if I do submit things here I'll do a bit of a showcase to give you the story of the kind of car and its market.

mhm

I was going to use my mid sized sportscar body and then take one of my previously designed engines and optimize bothe for the task at hand

[OCAdam]

I'm trying to work on an SLS AMG and get as close performance as I can to the real deal. So far I'm having MASSIVE issues on getting the same acceleration, even though the engine produces the same power, torque, parts usage, and so on. It even got put in the car and had slightly BETTER fuel economy than the real car (12.7 L/100km versus 13 L/100 km).