Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 crashes in Ukraine

[Cheeseman]

If MH370 wasn't enough for Malaysian Airlines, flight MH17 has crashed in Ukraine by the border with Russia, a flight carrying nearly 300 people travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. Some believe that it may have been shot down yet both Russia and Ukraine claim they haven't done it. Bodies have been found around the main wreckage, and some debris has scattered as far as 15 km from the main part of the plane. More here: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/j ... raine-live

[WizzyThaMan]

Im watching it on TV here.. really sad... lots of Dutchies were on the plane...

[Jakgoe]

God, I'm never getting on a Malaysian Airlines flight. I'm no political commentator, but I feel like Russia was behind it in one way or another.

[Leonardo9613]

Malaysia has been so unlucky, both planes' incidents had nothing to do with them, as it seems. I feel sad about the people who died, but also for the company, the market losses will be huge, because people will start to think like Jakgoe and boycott their flights.
And the Kremlin's quick positioning, even before they confirmed which plane it really was, is at least suspicious.

[Killrob]

Let me chime in on this as well (I've read a lot about it since it happened) and let me ask you a simple question: Who has the motive and who benefits?
Every serious police investigation involving murder starts like this. Why not this one?

[WizzyThaMan]

I dont know facts about this, but there is words out that the plane looked a lot like vladimir putins presidental jet, and that plane crossed the checkpoint like the malaysian one did, 41 minutes later than the plane that had been shot down. Could be that America tried to kill Putin.

Another thing, maybe they really thought it was an Ukranian Antonov cargoplane, and they misinterprit (lots of miltary planes use actual passengerflight numers, like MH17) the plane, thinking MH17 was the Antonov.

[Killrob]

Hmm, a conspiracy to kill Putin? I find that unlikely, you don't just shoot down a presidential jet (world's best countermeasures, escort, etc.).
For the second hypothesis, them thinking it was a large cargo plane: why would a large cargo plane be flying from Ukraine in the direction of Russia, and why would it fly right over the restricted airspace?

I'd recommend this article for a piece of the fact puzzle: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-1 ... d-airspace

[WizzyThaMan]

I agree, there is so much we dont know we cannot possibly make up anything that could be the reason to shoot the plane.

[Daffyflyer]

Plus the "looks like Putin's plane" doesn't really work as a theory. It doesn't matter what colour stripes it has when it's at ~30,000ft and you're only seeing it via radar.

It'd have to be "Had a very similar radar return to Putin's plane", which I'd imagine would cover most airliners of that sort of size.

[Jakgoe]

A 777 has an identical length to Putin's plane, and a wingspan within 2 feet. I assume the radar cross-sections would be very similar.

[Daffyflyer]

A 777 has an identical length to Putin's plane, and a wingspan within 2 feet. I assume the radar cross-sections would be very similar.

That would make sense from that point of view then. I'm just tired of silly people mentioning the same livery in news articles

[Jakgoe]

The "Putin Assassination" theory sounds a bit less credible the more I look into it. As far as I can tell, that report originated in the Russian media, so I would take that with a couple grains of salt.

[Dragawn]

I personally am digging the Antonov supply plane theory the most. Sure it wouldnt be likely for one to actually fly over the restricted airzone, but if some trigger happy rebels just want a piece to show their power, it could've been enough to make them impulsively shoot it down. The rumour that the video of rebels shooting "a supply plane" down appeared BEFORE it actually happened makes me sceptical though. Maybe someone with a deeper motive tried to use it as cover blaming the separatists. Also, twice Malaysian airlines? Seems like someone likes to shoot these down or something, but for what reason?

[WizzyThaMan]

Plus the "looks like Putin's plane" doesn't really work as a theory. It doesn't matter what colour stripes it has when it's at ~30,000ft and you're only seeing it via radar.

It'd have to be "Had a very similar radar return to Putin's plane", which I'd imagine would cover most airliners of that sort of size.

Use binoculars to looks up, the plane will be a bit bigger, anyway, it has a red stripe along the fuselage, and red is a strong color, dominant. So easy to see with our eyes.
Im just saying what I've read and that was the most... intriging one. Somehow I always want to make sure first America is not behind all this. As they seem to be the good guy, but proven to be the bad guy in many things. Nowadays you dont know what to believe of the media. I've seen examples of the media using pictures from another war or riot to make it look like it belongs to the current one.

Our media says Russia is all bad and all, and telling their people the story which is best for them, but how do we know they are not doing that to us, too, but maybe in a more subtle way?
They made us believe terrorists did 9/11,(together with American lies from the Bush government) but when they go for Bin Laden, what do they have to do in Iraq? Why is there these conspiracies that do make sense? just a small sum up:

- Fires were too hot for kerosine apparantly (KillRob will probably shoot me down for this, as he is the Scientific Master)
- Dogs who smell bombs and such, were removed from the build like 1 week before it happened
- The explosion of the plane hitting didnt match the way it flew into the building
- Im not sure how long, but it was like 3 months before the disaster, the owner insured the buildings for billions more
- They had discussed taking them down and rebuilding new, bigger ones, but they werent allowed as the buildings contained a lot of asbestos, so a controlled demolition wasnt possible, making it cost millions and millions more to deconstruct them.

Enough with 9/11, its about MH17. Today is the day of National Mourning in The Netherlands. We havent had such a day in 50 years. But this had such a great impact.. everyone knew someone on the plane, or knows someone who knew someone... so its pretty damn close to a lot of people.

Another things, is that this disaster is a major setback for HIV and AIDS research. Quite some people on that plane were on their way to an AIDS and HIV convention in Australia. People who were going to speak there, actually knew what they were talking about.

All together, a very sad sad sad story.

[Killrob]