Sandbox Mode

[07CobaltGirl]

I have to say, my biggest issue with the new saving system is.....

Comparing a car side by side is next to impossible now. I used to be able to save a revision (or even an entirely new name!), make changes, and then test back to back for comparison. Now, if I want to change things I either have to completely start over, or I cannot make changes to certain things. I know I could simply delete any additional trims, but this completely defeats the purpose of this testing method, and it has immense limitations since I can only make certain changes once a second trim/variant is included. Renaming outside of the game does nothing (except break things on regular occasion), so that is not a viable option for testing.

In tycoon mode, I get the "no looking back" ideology, but in sandbox, it should be completely open for experimentation. I don't hate the new system (aside from the sometimes very frustrating bugs which hinder it from working as desired), but I would like a chance to save a model and create a new one based on it in sandbox mode. I'm trying to give this a chance, but it is very frustrating. Not all of us are experts in tuning suspensions or engines, and we need a playground to learn on without the current limitations, or at least a way to work around it. This is even more true for new users who have not had a chance to play yet.

"Save" and/or "Save As" are wonderful things, IMHO. Timed auto-saves can also make sense, if there is some form of user control on how it operates. Right now it's make a change and it overwrites what you had on its own, without permission. In the real world, this is all data for future use. In Automation, we now have to recreate from memory or screenshots. It is overly complicated, to be honest. Like I said, I get this for Tycoon Mode, but not for Sandbox mode. With the old method, we could actually skip the revisions and just rename the files as we pleased to get copies to test on even. We no longer even have that option.

Blind auto-saves are counter-productive in learning environments. It isn't a matter of getting used to the new system. It's just the new system doesn't do what I need it to do. If any or all of this will be fixed after finding all of the bugs, then I will not say another word about saving and wait patiently. I really enjoy this game, and it is much needed as is probably quite obvious there are those who share in the vision or they would not have bought the game. We keep hearing "once all of the bugs are worked out you'll see it's much better this way", but nobody says how it will be better. We, the users, have lost control of our projects.

[Killrob]

Ahh, that is interesting. Correct me if I am wrong, but that doesn't sound like you have problems with the saving per se, but more with the fact that you cannot work on models once you have several trims. That has nothing to do with saving but a core solution to the "changing your grandfather's genes" problem. We introduced it in order to make possible the upcoming factory system, which will be very intuitive to use (at least it was designed with that in mind).

We plan on looking into implementing a "clone model" function if that is not insanely difficult to do, where you would be able to clone all existing trims under a model and change the chassis configuration then applied to all trims. That does require a new tool though due to how things are set up now.

I don't quite understand what you mean with it being impossible to compare cars side by side though. This has not been possible before and is possible now pretty easily? When you want to compare for instance one suspension setup to another you haven't made yet there are two options:
1) Clone the trim and change suspension from there, switching back and forth between the trims via the drop-down menu. Delete the trim you like less or keep them both. That is a two-click thing, has never been simpler, where you would have to quit out and load the other variant through the car manager.
2) Press the "Hold" button and start making changes. It now directly compares the two trim's stats, the current one with the one you hold in memory. If you are satisfied with your changes, press hold again, if not, press revert to go back to the original setup.

While I see your frustration with "the new system", I just as much don't understand your frustration with it :s and I mean that in an honest "I really don't see where the problem is and I wish I would" way. I think what would REALLY help is watching people who have issues with this play the game, see what they are doing - because obviously we are doing things differently.

[maffc]

2) Press the "Hold" button and start making changes. It now directly compares the two trim's stats, the current one with the one you hold in memory. If you are satisfied with your changes, press hold again, if not, press revert to go back to the original setup.

Perhaps the hold button could be re labeled as "release" or "unhold", while the game is in this mode.
Might make it's operation a bit clearer?

[Killrob]

Definitely, maffc, that would be a reasonable thing to do.

[07CobaltGirl]

Thank you, Killrob, for understanding I have some problems. Yes, it isn't directly involved with the save system, per se, as you stated. It is indirectly related. I know the hold/revert buttons are there for me to use, however, I don't always (read almost never) remember them, as they are new and I am not used to them (yet?). Yes, I am struggling. Before, I could click Rev1 on a new model and have two completely separate copies to work on. I have not really worked the "new system" into my methodology yet, and that is where I get frustrated. I also never understood how to release the hold. maffc made a wonderful suggestion, now that I know the same button does the release for new saving. So, perhaps this new knowledge will help me to use this feature more, but I tried that before and didn't know if it was saving anything or not? It wasn't clear to me until now.

I did understand completely this new system was implemented to be utilized further in Tycoon mode later on. This was not new information (I do watch the dev videos!!!! *see note below hahaha*) I just don't fully understand how to use it to set/meet my goals yet. If there will be a clone model implemented in the future, that would be fantastic and solve my problem completely. Especially if it clones families too (like for new model years etc?) I also understand there is a lot coming down the pipe in the near/far future. My frustration revolves around the darkness and lack of understanding of the new system. I'm old, so, you know, old dogs take longer to learn new tricks. I still love the game. I have a lot of fun tinkering. I just don't feel as effective in my tinkering as I used to feel. This is boosted by me not fully understanding all of the graphs yet, despite them being in the game for quite some time. It's a lot to take in, and I'm still old.

To summarize: I am used to the old way of doing things and having difficulty adopting the new way of doing things. I still want to save/copy when I want to save/copy in sandbox. This is something I can hopefully overcome with time, but so far I'm just stuck in my old ways. I do, however, still think sandbox should be wide open for experimentation. Oh, and I also REALLY need to watch those damn tutorial videos again......cuz you know...I'm old!

I have to say, sometimes I get lost watching the videos because I think killrob's voice is rather sexy with the accent and what-not...so I occasionally have to suffer through them multiple times *evil grin* Australian accents are even worse for me and I have no idea why I like German and Aussie accents so damn much.

[Zabhawkin]

My 2 cents here.

I understand that the current auto-save system is bugged, but having it save whenever you make a change is also physically hard on the hard drives, expecially when making a car that someone spends a lot of time tweaking to make it as good as possible.

If it saved either as a timed autosave (user setable times), or whenever the player pressed either the last tab to view the performance, or left a section, or exited the sandbox/designer might work out better and might be less prone to bugs.

[Zabhawkin]

I have to say, sometimes I get lost watching the videos because I think killrob's voice is rather sexy with the accent and what-not...so I occasionally have to suffer through them multiple times *evil grin* Australian accents are even worse for me and I have no idea why I like German and Aussie accents so damn much.

My wife has commented on liking his accent too.

[Killrob]

If it saved either as a timed autosave (user setable times), or whenever the player pressed either the last tab to view the performance, or left a section, or exited the sandbox/designer might work out better and might be less prone to bugs.

And that is my point exactly, that is what it was intended to do but doesn't because of bugs :s

[HolgerSalewski]

Hello
find it better if you abolish the automatic saving again or can choose it if you can enable or disable this option .
The reason is with me , that I 'm building a car . When I've finished I change z.bdie spotlight again and then realize that my first version of my car hat.Früher better like I finished the sandbox and my first version of the car remained unchanged since , because I the other , second version had not saved and is now automatically every Verändeung gespeichert.Dadurch I lose my first car version .

What one should perhaps introduce another name for the Platform is thus a PlatformName
example
Audi A4 = Vehicle Name
1,8 T = model name
B5 = Platform

many thanks

[biffenh]

Hello
find it better if you abolish the automatic saving again or can choose it if you can enable or disable this option .
The reason is with me , that I 'm building a car . When I've finished I change z.bdie spotlight again and then realize that my first version of my car hat.Früher better like I finished the sandbox and my first version of the car remained unchanged since , because I the other , second version had not saved and is now automatically every Verändeung gespeichert.Dadurch I lose my first car version .

What one should perhaps introduce another name for the Platform is thus a PlatformName
example
Audi A4 = Vehicle Name
1,8 T = model name
B5 = Platform

many thanks

I would love if we get a brand name slot, model, revision/platform & trim or something like that.

Take the Audi as an example.
The Brand name is Audi, Model A4. Then You can have platform/revision. You release the b5 in 95 then you make a facelift in 99 (a new trim). Then in 01 you make a new revision/platform of the same model (the b6).
So you can rerelase the same model but with a new car in a couple of years.

Hope you guys understand what i mean.
English is not my primary language

[HolgerSalewski]

Hello thank you for your answer .
I have also been thinking about me , but if I want to do a facelift then it changes me my 1995 models .

It would be better if you first formed the body and this can save it as a platform ( as an internal name ) . Then you build ran its attachments such as headlights, taillights , etc. and developed his engine and can enter the model name Example : Audi A4 then perhaps the amenities you can also designate thought so so
Platform sales designation
B5 Audi A4 1.8T
3G Passat 1.8 Comforline

And daa can manually save and not every change is stored equal .

[TrackpadUser]

The thing with automation's system is that making model and platform two separate things wouldn't bring much, appart from having cars with a different brand/name sharing one platform.

That could be interesting but I do not think it is worth the UI space it would take and the additional complexity.

Nothing keeps you from calling one car the "Audi A4 B5" and then call the evolution of that car the "Audi A4 B6".

Also, autosave system is being worked on, to fix the current problems.

[HolgerSalewski]

hello
I found the solution from Version 1418 optimal.Dort could develop a vehicle and abspeichern.Danach could change this model and subsequently save them under a different name without the basic model has been changed .

My thought is , if I eg a model designing for example an Audi A4 1.6 basic model and would then offer a higher quality same model with spoiler and alloy wheels or Audi S4 on the same platform as my basic model is upgraded or when choosing a castle so I kann.Das change anything is a shame because it has good works! in the previous version with the manual store , it would be great again this way or in the form recoup
many Thanks
English is my main language bicht sorry for the bad pronunciation