Open Beta [B150918+] Feedback

[Jastrzab1984]

I see that cars from workshop was put to main game file, so we have now duplicated cars models. We all have interesting models made on workshop cars, so we cannot delete duplicated workshop models. Is it possible that game ask about car file localization instead giving us error? If not please write where I can manually change file path. I tried in Trim folder and in Model folder, but it doesn't work.

[titleguy1]

So, this is a slightly complicated thing, but when I choose a fixture, confirm it's location/remove it, and then click on the fixture again, this error pops up:

---------------------------
Lua Error:
---------------------------
tolua++ dbcall failed!: [string "--client\functional\PlatformDesignerWindowDel..."]:540: bad argument #1 to 'pairs' (table expected, got nil)

You can CTRL+C on this to report it.
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------

It's not anything game-breaking, but it's a small thing that could be fixed.

[TrackpadUser]

Not sure if bug or me misunderstanding something but on a few cars as soon as i finalise design/go to the testing page the driveability drops to 0. In detail stats this is caused by dynamic response being rated -100% yet in the engine designer my engine scores 20 for responsiveness. car was made in 1946 can upload file if needed.

IIRC dynamic response is related to oversteer/understeer, depending on your suspension setup.

This is a bit of an issue with rear engined cars, especially in the early days.

To prevent this you can try fitting wider tires at the back, as well as messing around with the suspension settings.

Usually, making the front springs/sway bars harder and the rear springs/sway bars softer should help induce some understeer and get more than 0 driveability.

[titleguy1]

I... I don't even...

MAde with the 60's sporty Aston-style body.

[Killrob]

Not sure if bug or me misunderstanding something but on a few cars as soon as i finalise design/go to the testing page the driveability drops to 0. In detail stats this is caused by dynamic response being rated -100% yet in the engine designer my engine scores 20 for responsiveness. car was made in 1946 can upload file if needed.

Yes, please upload a car that does that, would be very helpful if we could check that out!

[07CobaltGirl]

I... I don't even...
*snip* *Giant Pink Car Image* *snip*
MAde with the 60's sporty Aston-style body.

I also saw this one, but forgot to post it. It only happens with a convertible, for me at least. (I didn't know there was a convertible option for this body until today) I attempted to build a car with it anyway, but the body just doesn't show up as anything but this pink block. Everything underneath the body seems fine, and it never gave any sort of error message either.

[Prasiatko]

Ok further testing on Dynamic response as long as the rear tyres are the same width or bigger than the front it does not occur. As soon as they are smaller -100% on dynamic response even if suspension balance shows massive understeer. File i upload will oversteer on reducing rear tyre size by one click but even once altered to understeer massively no change in dynamic response.

Also found another bug where with 3 pages worth of grilles installed i cannot select anything on third page.

[UMGaming]

Ok further testing on Dynamic response as long as the rear tyres are the same width or bigger than the front it does not occur. As soon as they are smaller -100% on dynamic response even if suspension balance shows massive understeer. File i upload will oversteer on reducing rear tyre size by one click but even once altered to understeer massively no change in dynamic response.

Also found another bug where with 3 pages worth of grilles installed i cannot select anything on third page.

similar fixture bug for me, but i cant select any fitures that airnt on pg1 or the fixture groups

[Killrob]

Again, thank you guys for continuing to post your bug reports, we just pushed out a new patch, the changelog is in the OP.

[Trifler]

1) Pink bodies as of today's patch (these worked for me yesterday):
- The 1955 pickup body with 2.95m/116.1" displays entirely in pink for all three styles.
- The 1960 jeep body with 2.93m/115.3" displays entirely in pink for both the 5-door and 2-door pickup version.
- The 1965 car with 2.42m/95.28" displays entirely in pink for both the 2-door and station wagon, although it displays fine for the 4-door.

Some minor items:

2) Rear engine inconsistencies:
- The 1955 sedan with 2.69m/105.9" is missing a rear longitudinal option.
- The 1955 Austin with 2.02m/79.5" allows rear longitudinal on the 2-door, but not on the 4-door, which makes sense if it's going to limited on either. Maybe the car is too small to have room with the 4-door? However, it isn't allowed on the convertible. If it's allowed on the 2-door, I would think it should be allowed on the 2-door convertible.
- The 1960 sedan with 2.67m/105.1" allows rear longitudinal on the 4-door, but not on the 2-door. This seems backwards, although it was allowed on 4-doors earlier. This is a bigger car, so perhaps both were intended to have it? It makes sense that the station wagon one wouldn't have it.

3) Even with the body fully elongated, I cannot see 8 seats in the smaller 1960 jeep body. I think it should be capped at 5 (at most 6 for a front bench seat).

3) For convertibles, I was wondering if perhaps they should be grayed out on the Markets tab if it's not a convertible body. Basically it would work the same way as seats do now. Otherwise, if all cars can sell as convertibles, then why have convertible body types?

[Killrob]

All kinds of bugposts

Great! We'll attack these tomorrow.

3) For convertibles, I was wondering if perhaps they should be grayed out on the Markets tab if it's not a convertible body. Basically it would work the same way as seats do now. Otherwise, if all cars can sell as convertibles, then why have convertible body types?

Heh, that's very deliberate. Do you think someone who really wants a convertible would rather not buy a car at all and walk if that person can't get a convertible car? Or would said person try to buy something that comes as close as possible to that? I would argue the latter is the case. If you only have non-convertibles in the market and build a convertible for it, it will have a massive advantage over all non-convertibles.

[Trifler]

3) For convertibles, I was wondering if perhaps they should be grayed out on the Markets tab if it's not a convertible body. Basically it would work the same way as seats do now. Otherwise, if all cars can sell as convertibles, then why have convertible body types?

Heh, that's very deliberate. Do you think someone who really wants a convertible would rather not buy a car at all and walk if that person can't get a convertible car? Or would said person try to buy something that comes as close as possible to that? I would argue the latter is the case. If you only have non-convertibles in the market and build a convertible for it, it will have a massive advantage over all non-convertibles.

Hmm... I think I see where you're coming from, but:

- I have cars where two of their three top categories are convertible, even though the car is not a convertible. That should not happen. If they were just green-ish, I doubt I would have even brought it up.
- If a person desiring a convertible can't find one and chooses a non-convertible as a result, then that's an example of them choosing a non-convertible category. For example, someone looking for a car in the Convertible Budget category, who can't find a convertible, would most likely buy a car from the Premium Budget category since the traits are very similar. To me, graying out the convertible categories simply means that customers don't see the car as a convertible. It doesn't mean they don't buy a car.
- I suppose it depends on how you're modeling the customers. If each category gets X number of customers, and that's the only category they're interested in, then what you're saying makes sense. However, if they're able to spill over into the next closest category if they don't find anything in their first category, then it makes more sense to gray out the convertible categories for non-convertible cars.
- Perhaps the convertible categories just need to weigh the convertible trait considerably higher than the current 15%?

[Killrob]

I suppose it depends on how you're modeling the customers. If each category gets X number of customers, and that's the only category they're interested in, then what you're saying makes sense. However, if they're able to spill over into the next closest category if they don't find anything in their first category, then it makes more sense to gray out the convertible categories for non-convertible cars.

That is how it is working in game and later in the campaign play too, yes.

Perhaps the convertible categories just need to weigh the convertible trait considerably higher than the current 15%?

No, I disagree. In practice the 15% weight is closer to 30% increased score, because being a hardtop convertible = 100 score times weight, while normal "good" stats are worth around 50 score times weight. That means the following in the game: if you have car A being a convertible but being objectively 30% worse than car B which is a non-convertible, the buyers in the convertible category would split 50/50. I think that sounds very reasonable. Also, a boolean in the choices of demographics very much goes against its underlying design philosophy: the demographics present a spectrum of tastes, there are no hard borders. That will make for dynamic gameplay in the campaign, where you more easily can find niches because of that.

[Trifler]

I suppose it depends on how you're modeling the customers. If each category gets X number of customers, and that's the only category they're interested in, then what you're saying makes sense. However, if they're able to spill over into the next closest category if they don't find anything in their first category, then it makes more sense to gray out the convertible categories for non-convertible cars.

That is how it is working in game and later in the campaign play too, yes.

Perhaps the convertible categories just need to weigh the convertible trait considerably higher than the current 15%?

No, I disagree. In practice the 15% weight is closer to 30% increased score, because being a hardtop convertible = 100 score times weight, while normal "good" stats are worth around 50 score times weight. That means the following in the game: if you have car A being a convertible but being objectively 30% worse than car B which is a non-convertible, the buyers in the convertible category would split 50/50. I think that sounds very reasonable. Also, a boolean in the choices of demographics very much goes against its underlying design philosophy: the demographics present a spectrum of tastes, there are no hard borders. That will make for dynamic gameplay in the campaign, where you more easily can find niches because of that.

My point is simply that any customer in the Convertible category who ends up buying a non-convertible, in reality is not buying a car from the Convertible category anymore.

It sounds to me like you're saying that the way the game works is a customer says, "Do I buy a car from the Convertible category, or not?" and if not, then they don't buy a car. Thus, you include non-convertibles in the Convertibles category to avoid customers vanishing from the market. Whereas I was talking about a customer that says, "If I don't buy a car from the Convertible category, what's the next best category?" That's what I call the "spillover" effect.

Either way, you have the same number of customers buying the same number of each type of car. It's just the way the information is presented to the player that is different. Therefore I guess it's ok the way it is, but it's not as intuitive.

[strop]

It sounds to me like you're saying that the way the game works is a customer says, "Do I buy a car from the Convertible category, or not?" and if not, then they don't buy a car. Thus, you include non-convertibles in the Convertibles category to avoid customers vanishing from the market. Whereas I was talking about a customer that says, "If I don't buy a car from the Convertible category, what's the next best category?" That's what I call the "spillover" effect.

But I don't think that all, or even most, customers who wish to buy from a single demographic would necessarily agree on what 'the next best category' is, given we can't assume what one's motivations to thinking about buying a convertible is in the first place. In real life conditions, when we report that car types appeal to demographics and there is 'spill over', we're only noticing a specific trend, due to the specific characteristics of those specific cars or group of (emerging) cars. By the same token, the demographics as listed in this game aren't hard and fast labels, only a set of characteristics weighted differently.

To give you an example going the other way, I am very tempted to buy a Miata. This is technically a convertible car, but I'm not actually that interested in it being a convertible, I'm more interested in the fact it is a fun or light and sporty car. I could be in the market for other light and sporty cars that aren't convertible... but if I bought the Miata I would have bought a 'convertible'. I suspect that many Miata buyers are similarly drawn to the car's driving characteristics moreso than the mere fact it is a convertible. Thus from this perspective, it would make sense for the Miata (and its competitors!) to score well in all those segments.

Given the way the data is presented, what isn't intuitive is that you may build a car specifically geared towards excelling in one sector, only to find that even if it does well in that particular sector, it will do even better in other related (and sometimes not so closely related) sectors. Part of that may be due to competition or lack thereof, but in the end, you'll get used to it.

On a somewhat related note, sometimes an entire demographic will display unusual interest in something clearly not marketed to them. Just look at what happened to My Little Pony...