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BRC 1966 - Gentleman Brobots Club [RACE 6 P&Q]

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Packbat

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Post Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:54 am

Re: BRC 1966 - Gentleman Brobots Club [RACE 6 P&Q]

I do like arguing for rule-changes, but I'm not in this case. I'd only be building it on the off-chance that it can be made effective under the '76 rules - I'm already fairly sure it can't.
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07CobaltGirl

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Post Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:26 am

Re: BRC 1966 - Gentleman Brobots Club [RACE 6 P&Q]

Well, without even mentioning the LSx engines (did that count as doing such?), I have an OHV which is competitive in the 1966 series (top 20 at least). The issues with my car are not really engine related, but driver related with collisions and errors. I believe there is an OHV even higher in the standings than mine (but I can't recall which one it is right now). OHV can be competitive, when you're limiting power to weight. They do have lower revs, but they are also lighter weight and smaller dimensions to allow for larger displacements in the same physical space (usually eating up the weight advantage). In the upcoming series, they will not be competitive, since it is a displacement limitation. Equal displacement OHV and OHC engines are not competitive with one another (MOHV attempts to even this balance but fails for the most part, and would be those LSx motors we aren't supposed to mention). Superchargers, when they get added, will further balance these two engine types, as they rely much less on exhaust flow and more on intake abilities (and pulley drives). Turbos don't do fantastically well on an OHV engine, IMO, as they are too bulky and are intimately tied to airflow designs, which OHC is far superior. There is a good reason why many dragsters are supercharged OHV and most road racers are turbo or NA OHC engines. OHV is punchy power. OHC is quite variable by contrast.
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Riso

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Post Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:31 am

Re: BRC 1966 - Gentleman Brobots Club [RACE 6 P&Q]

Ford won 24h Le Mans 1966-1969 with OHV so they are not that bad a choice for endurance racing. But the cars weighed barely 910kg despite using 7l and 4.9l engines.

Plus there are precedents for giving OHV special exemptions even today.
For example, the WEC/Le Mans engine limit is 5.5l but exemptions were granted for 8l V10 OHV Dodge Vipers. Most engines are around 4.5l in LM-GTE but in 2015 a Corvette went on to win Le Mans in LM-GTE Pro class with a 5.5l OHV design.
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Post Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:44 am

Re: BRC 1966 - Gentleman Brobots Club [RACE 6 P&Q]

I feel one way would be to make an exception in the rules for them, like saying, cc * 1.25 or something. However, (And I put emphasis on this) that's an added complication to a rule set made purposefully simple.

On the other hand, some really like using them, Cobaltgirl comes to mind for some reason :p. So maybe it'd be worth at least making them somewhat of an option. We wouldn't have to make them good even, just not as bad as they are now. Just because using one now is like stabbing yourself in the eyes.
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Post Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:00 am

Re: BRC 1966 - Gentleman Brobots Club [RACE 6 P&Q]

Yeah, I have that in mind for the next version. But we have to stop at some point trying to make each approach competitive. Basically we would have to make inline 4 cars lighter than v12, too. But it's not much fun balancing that.
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07CobaltGirl

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Post Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:24 am

Re: BRC 1966 - Gentleman Brobots Club [RACE 6 P&Q]

My post was in no way making an argument for a balance change in OHV vs OHC. I'm perfectly fine with it the way it is. Do I think the game calculations are wrong? I wouldn't have a clue, as I'm not a mechanical engineer. I do know I can take a 5.0L pony car in real life, modify the holy hell out of it for max power, and still have a lot of money left over when comparing budgets with even an I4 DOHC modder. OHV is inexpensive. Period. My car CAN BE competitive with a p-w limit. I would never expect it to be competitive in a displacement war, because power-to-liter is not in the list of OHV advantages. A seriously strong OHV engine will produce 1 horsepower to 1 cubic inch. Most of you are certified engineers and can convert what that comes to be in liters and/or kilowatts, but OHC engines will blow it away, whatever it might be. Can I beat the 1:1 limit? Absolutely. Is it a better engine because of it? Absolutely not. OHV has it's limitations. OHC has disadvantages as well, but power-liter is not one of them.
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Packbat

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Post Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:30 am

Re: BRC 1966 - Gentleman Brobots Club [RACE 6 P&Q]

Honestly, rather than instituting balancing rules, I'd suggest people organize more BROBOT races that aren't BRC races. Yeah, I4s might not be effective here, but in SOMWOS those four-bangers were all over the leaderboards.
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Post Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:33 am

Re: BRC 1966 - Gentleman Brobots Club [RACE 6 P&Q]

Packbat wrote:Honestly, rather than instituting balancing rules, I'd suggest people organize more BROBOT races that aren't BRC races.


I have a series planned for this in my head. However, I'm patiently waiting on Der Bayer to get B.R.O.B.O.T. dialed in as well as for my semester to end before I introduce it.
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koolkei

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Post Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:37 am

Re: BRC 1966 - Gentleman Brobots Club [RACE 6 P&Q]

yeah, how do 1 get access to running the races on brobots again? i wasn't around when the glory days of the old brobot is still around.

and i totally agree with cobaltgirl. if OHV isn't competitive, well no need to force it to be competitive i think. it may have it's advantages, just not on these types of races.
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07CobaltGirl

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Post Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:52 am

Re: BRC 1966 - Gentleman Brobots Club [RACE 6 P&Q]

koolkei wrote:yeah, how do 1 get access to running the races on brobots again? i wasn't around when the glory days of the old brobot is still around.

and i totally agree with cobaltgirl. if OHV isn't competitive, well no need to force it to be competitive i think. it may have it's advantages, just not on these types of races.


You don't. Der Bayer runs the races on BROBOT. Because of proprietary code involved in the BROBOT-to-AutomatoinGame transaction, only he can run them at this time.

(on the vids it sounds like Prylix might also have access, but this isn't actually confirmed that I can remember)
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koolkei

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Post Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:06 am

Re: BRC 1966 - Gentleman Brobots Club [RACE 6 P&Q]

so we have to request to der bayer to use it?
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Leonardo9613

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Post Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:24 am

Re: BRC 1966 - Gentleman Brobots Club [RACE 6 P&Q]

Yes, exactly that. You have to ask Der Bayer if he allows you to run the challenge. The somwos and the 45 and 55 BRCs were ran on his computer and then the video was uploaded for the commenters to use. On the 66 race, the event is live, being ran from pyrlix' computer, who martin trusts and already has the automation code available since he's a tester.
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findRED19

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Post Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:35 am

Re: BRC 1966 - Gentleman Brobots Club [RACE 6 P&Q]

I am also one of those who wish to see another race other than brc with brobot. I even have a preliminary rule set for an American trans-am type race already made up, but due to my own busy life, I have not attempted such challenge.

In fact, brobot is looking even better with support for endurance racing (which was also needed for a trans-am type challenge), and I would like to see a much more intense nascar style challenge made up to just test the new features of brobot. (Those being the driver "coolness/anger" meter, the endurance racing, and the other revised calculations)
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KLinardo

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Post Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:38 am

Re: BRC 1966 - Gentleman Brobots Club [RACE 6 P&Q]

findRED19 wrote:I would like to see a much more intense nascar style challenge



SHHHHHHH
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findRED19

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Post Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:42 am

Re: BRC 1966 - Gentleman Brobots Club [RACE 6 P&Q]

KLinardo wrote:
findRED19 wrote:I would like to see a much more intense nascar style challenge



SHHHHHHH


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All that was heard was, "Sounds Good, --- ...see RPG there with--*
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