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UCC – Ultimate Car Comparison – Dad’s Limbo [Review Posted]

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VicVictory

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Post Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:02 am

Re: UCC – Ultimate Car Comparison – Dad’s Limbo

I... I... won?! :shock:
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Tycondero

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Post Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:06 am

Re: UCC – Ultimate Car Comparison – Dad’s Limbo

VicVictory wrote:I... I... won?! :shock:


Well, it seems you won the place, best of the rest? The four winners are not mentioned in the list, which includes I believe my car, Leonardo's, Lordred and Normanvauxhal.
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Post Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:19 am

Re: UCC – Ultimate Car Comparison – Dad’s Limbo

Seems like spending a lot of money on fuel economy ended up making a car that cost slightly less than average, even with the crazy high maintenance costs :D

Although the poor safety and tameness probably didn't help getting decent results :(
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VicVictory

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Post Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:49 am

Re: UCC – Ultimate Car Comparison – Dad’s Limbo

Tycondero wrote:
VicVictory wrote:I... I... won?! :shock:


Well, it seems you won the place, best of the rest? The four winners are not mentioned in the list, which includes I believe my car, Leonardo's, Lordred and Normanvauxhal.


Ah, I missed that part. Well, 5th ain't bad. :D
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JasonPoland

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Post Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:49 am

Re: UCC – Ultimate Car Comparison – Dad’s Limbo

I'm waiting to be buried by Kubboz. And I lost to Troposphere by 0.2, that is some cheese. I'm not last tho, it's something.
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Kubboz

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Post Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:09 am

Re: UCC – Ultimate Car Comparison – Dad’s Limbo

Why would I bury you? I ain't your enemy. The fact that you did roughly as well on the safety front as I expected is nothing to be ashamed of.

Nice to see you being glad of you not being last. Being happy of the results is the key to enjoying the competition. For an instance, I am happy with how Cossack 2200 did, even though I've realised it's kinda subpar some time after I sent it in.
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Post Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:56 am

Re: UCC – Ultimate Car Comparison – Dad’s Limbo

Rofl my car only did good in the Cheap as shit department XD ah well good competition all :) and holy shit was my desirability low O_o
What buyer demographic were we aiming for?
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Tycondero

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Post Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:06 am

Re: UCC – Ultimate Car Comparison – Dad’s Limbo

VicVictory wrote:Ah, I missed that part. Well, 5th ain't bad. :D

No, it is indeed not bad! You should be happy. During the last couple of challenges I was contantly 5th or 6th, finally I now make it to the reviews for the first time.

BeforeLifer wrote:What buyer demographic were we aiming for?

What about dads? In other words, male drivers with a family and a middle class income/job.
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Post Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:15 am

Re: UCC – Ultimate Car Comparison – Dad’s Limbo

I know it was dads but im wondering if there was a specific one from the released matrix XD
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Post Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:56 am

Re: UCC – Ultimate Car Comparison – Dad’s Limbo

/blinks.

I made top 4?
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Post Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:33 pm

Re: UCC – Ultimate Car Comparison – Dad’s Limbo

Ah, man. Too bad my car kept throwing LUA errors. I was so ready, too ;-;
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Post Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:17 pm

Re: UCC – Ultimate Car Comparison – Dad’s Limbo

Kubboz wrote:Why would I bury you? I ain't your enemy. The fact that you did roughly as well on the safety front as I expected is nothing to be ashamed of.
Nice to see you being glad of you not being last. Being happy of the results is the key to enjoying the competition.


Thanks man. I've beaten you in one category tho :D
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Post Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:29 pm

Re: UCC – Ultimate Car Comparison – Dad’s Limbo

My Little Compact
Written by Ivor Derr
First published on Axle Hopper Magazine, October 2011 Edition

It was an early morning in the middle of autumn when I received the phone call from the editor. I felt as though I was in a limbo. It was cold, nothing was happening and I felt as if, in case my life were to end tomorrow, it wouldn’t have any effect on mankind. And then, the editor said, I was to review one of the most common types of car on the road, the sort of car people buy in their thousands, just to use as white goods. At this point, you must know how miserable I felt.

However, the truth is, I was delighted.

I think some people know my hatred for the compact crossovers, which seem to be piling up into the market nowadays. They often ask me why I despise those cars so much. The answer I always give to them is very simple: firstly, despite being advertised as rugged tools, they are useless off-road and, secondly, they don’t drive anywhere nearly as nicely as the compact cars they’re based on. So why do people keep buying them? I can’t help thinking that it’s because we’ve been through recession very recently, the effects of which are still felt today. People who seem to need to have things that look bigger than they actually are, to compensate for what they lack, exist since the dawn of time.

But the compact car? Now that’s different. From day one, I’ve always liked compact cars. I have done pieces about modifying a Znopresk Zest for this magazine and it was the most fun I’ve ever had with a car.

The other reviewers view compact cars with disdain. Not only because supercars are much nicer to drive, but also because writing about any supercar is easy, it is just a matter of saying that the thing tears your face off. The readers, on the other hand, want to read about how a Supercar tears the writer’s face off and if it does, they automatically know that it is good. But a compact? What can you say about a Mitsushita that can make the readers interested?

I always view that as a challenge. Maybe that’s why the editor gave this job to me and not to some other, more famous, individual. However, while the supercars only have to go fast to impress, the compact class is a much tougher one to crack. These cars must be economical, somewhat decent to drive, easy to operate, comfortable and, on top of all that, they should still impress the neighbours, while being affordable enough to not be that much of a burden when the buyers lease or buy them.

For this test, I ran 2 car manufacturers, which I know are making two of my favourite compacts, and my colleague suggested two new compact cars that are very promising on paper. Although, I wasn’t so sure about one of them.

The first contender, from the Italian company that makes the Znopresk Zest that I love so much, is the ZM Danzig 1.7 Earthline. This front-wheel-drive econobox is the latest version in the Danzig line-up. It features the tried and tested Znopresk SOHC, 1.7 Litre, Inline 4 engine, here producing a measly 93hp. It’s a proper Znopresk motor and, as I’m going to tell you, the driving experience is also proper Znopresk.

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The second contender hails from the Netherlands. The Astana Cosmos II Deluxe Edition 2.8L. This one was suggested by my colleague and, honestly, it is butt ugly. But the 2.8 litre, inline 6 engine that lives under the bonnet is an absolute gem of an engine. Producing 183hp, it will leave the ZM eating dust in a drag race. Under the skin, the engineering is pretty interesting as well. So don’t be deceived by the looks alone just yet.

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The third contender is a proper American. The LHE Com Star X4G. It looks very dated, starting with the front’s massive dewlap, whereas, at this day and age, other cars are able to hide their 2.5 mph bumpers much more gracefully and the back looks like it came straight out of 1994. Shall we say it didn’t grow on me like some of the other cars. The engine uses OHV, just like the current crop of BKOO Muricars. But here it’s boosted by a huge Turbocharger resulting in 141hp from just 1.7 litres, making it the only car of the group to have been enhanced by boost.

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And last, but not least, the favourite car of the banana eater. From Brazil, it’s the Baltazar Lepton Wagon 2.0 Lux. I must say it’s a very modern looking car, unlike the LHE and the ZM. It also looks better than the Cosmos, but that doesn’t really matter. What matters is that this one got a 2 litre 121hp engine.

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The first thing I did was to bring all of the 4 cars to the local race track. Despite not really being the priority of the average buyer, the race track is able to show all the handling merits and disadvantages of these cars.

The first car I drove was the Lepton. Immediately I noticed the tall ride height, there’s a lot of ground clearance to clear the potholes on the streets of its home-town, Curitiba. The tyres are 195/65/R15 size with medium compound rubber and not the usual hard, eco-friendly tyres that are very popular with new models. This set-up, coupled with the safely tuned suspension, yields a tendency for the front end to push long before the limit of the grip is approached and lots of roll in the corners. The grip itself is not bad, but nothing to write home either. The brakes do not fade, but the pedal feels mushy and it has a very long travel.

The 2-litre twin-cam engine with 16 valves is very typical for a car of this class, it produces 121hp with lovely low end torque. The power is transmitted via a 5 speed Automatic gearbox with nicely set-up ratios. The resulting acceleration of 12.4 seconds to 100km/h is decent enough, albeit not spritely at all. Top speed of 185km/h is also sufficient, but will not excite any Germans.

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The second car I drove was the ZM. With 93hp on tap I was not expecting much from it. But then I was pleasantly surprised when I discovered that the car weighs only 1240kg, about 200kg less than the other contenders. All that power is transmitter through a similar 5 Speed Automatic gearbox to the Lepton’s and, for reasons I can’t really understand, it’s got a limited slip differential with viscous coupling. 0-100km/h is achieved in 14.1 seconds, with no wheel spin whatsoever. Top speed is 180km/h. The most important thing is that it never felt as slow as it actually was. Which I must say, was very slow indeed.

The handling was also a surprise as it has less roll than the Lepton. While the Earthline is equiped with 195/65/R15 Eco-Friendly tyres, it still offered very good cornering, with a level of grip similar to the Lepton. While it also had similar sort of front end push of the Lepton, its lack of weight helps me to avoid a trip to the Ludus Silva Forest. The brakes fade a little, which I suspect is the result of having drums on the rear, but it still stops from 100km/h in anadequate 40 metres.

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The third car I drove was the Com Star. I didn’t have much hope for it, at first, simply because it’s American. But let’s not get carried away with stereotypes here, this thing can handle its own. It is also equipped with a 5 Speed Automatic, but the Com Star propels itself through the rear wheels. It also has near 50/50 weight distribution. Probably due to this fact, the engineers at LHE have chosen an unusual combination of tyre profiles, 195/55/R15 tyres at the front and 205/50/R15s at the rear, with medium compound rubber. When I noticed this on the specs sheet, I immediately knew that this car would understeer, but the Double Wishbone/Multilink suspension makes it handle very nicely. Despite having more front end push, it still grips harder than the Lepton or the Danzig, possibly due to its wider rear tyres. The brakes are rather excellent, stopping the car from 100km/h in just 38.2 metres, the best out of the lot.

0-100km/h can be achieved in 12.4 seconds, just as quick as the lighter Lepton. The 1.7 litre 4 cylinder engine might be an OHV job, but it’s very similar to the OHV system used in the BKOO Muricar, a very modern pushrod system. The engine is all aluminium and, coupled with a Turbocharged pushing 1 bar of boost, produces 141hp. There’s a lot of turbo-lag below 2700rpm, but after that it’s got a flat torque curve right until 4600rpm, creating a very potent little motor. Top speed is 216km/h, much higher than both the Lepton and the Danzig.

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The last car I went out in was the Cosmos. It has a 2.8 Litre, Inline 6 engine, with SOHC. It channels its power, again, through a 5 Speed Automatic Gearbox, but the difference here is that the Cosmos is all wheel drive, with a rear-biased torque distribution and a viscous coupling Limited Slip Differential. With 183 hp, it’s easily the quickest car here, going from 0-100km/h in just 8.7 seconds. The top speed however, loses out to the Com Star, at 210km/h. Although I doubt that many would want to do that sort of speed in today's speed kills lobbyist filled world.

The Cosmos comes with MacPherson Struts at the front and Semi Trailing Arms at the rear. The wheels are 17-inch all around, wrapped in Medium compound 195/55 tyres. I’m actually quite surprised to see that there’s very little technology and electronic aids in the Cosmos, yet the driving experience is as pleasurable as you’d imagine. It drives like an old Bavaria UWOT30 car, perhaps not a surprise since the layout is very similar. It grips a lot and you can feel that it wants to rotate around the corner. The engine has no flat spots and it has the same very smooth Inline 6 feel as the Bavarian car.

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After driving the lot, the conclusion is that I like the Cosmos around the track the most. Then, I tested the car on the place where all of these cars are likely going to spend their entire life in: The real world.

I first went out in the Danzig, the car that surprised me around the track the most, but, tallied up, it still turned out to be the worst of the bunch. The suspension is soft, in a Znopresk-y sort of way, making it incredibly comfortable, soaking up the bumps like champ. The engine is quiet and very smooth, considering the inherent 4 cylinder imbalance.

But then I went out in the Lepton. And I found it to be even more comfortable, the suspension is harder, but, with the optional Adaptive dampers we have on our test car, it’s a very smooth riding car. But the same can’t be said for that engine, it’s not that rough, but it’s not as smooth as the ZM Danzig.

The Com Star was the next car I went out in. The spec sheet looked very promising, with active dampers and semi active anti roll bars, but it’s set up to be a lot firmer than both the Danzig and the Lepton. The engine was both the quietest and the coarsest. It isn't uncomfortable, but it simply couldn’t match the other contenders.

The Cosmos was the best out of the lot, again. It might not ride as smoothly as the Lepton, but the interior is much nicer. If you asked me which of these cars has the best interior, I’d immediate say the Cosmos. It feels like a premium product, since it is a lot quieter inside than all the other cars and the seats are more comfortable. The engine itself has the traditional inline 6 smoothness and sound. Very classic Bavaria, very nice. But then again, we shouldn't get carried away here, there’s a price to pay for this.

When it comes to basic equipment, all the cars are very similar. They all have basic CD players with 4 speakers, all have air conditioning and basic analogue instrument panels. While the Cosmos has better quality materials on the dash and seats, it doesn’t have more equipment than the others. They also have very good safety features, with as many airbags as you could possibly ever want, thus scoring well in crash tests, with a single exception, the Danzig. Even though it has the same safety equipment as the other cars, its chassis debuted in the 1999 Znopresk Zest, therefore it simply can't match the crash test results, as it wasn't designed with the thorough new tests in mind.

What about practicality? All of these cars are 5 seaters, 3 of them are wagons and all of them should be easy to live with day to day.

The Lepton clearly is the most practical car there, it offers the most amount of space inside, the boot is massive and the boot sill is very low, which makes it easy for lifting heavy stuff to put in the boot of the car.

The Cosmos is the second most practical, losing space because of its longitudinal engine layout, the space inside is not as big as the Lepton. And because of the all-wheel drive system, the boot floor is rather shallow, despite the car being very close to the Lepton in overall dimensions.

The Danzig is much smaller inside than both the Lepton and the Cosmos and the boot is even smaller than the one on the space ripping Cosmos. You can really tell that this is an old design.

But the worst car in this department was the Com Star, being a Sedan and not a Wagon like all others. It also has the least amount of space inside, making the rear passengers feel cramped.

And then comes the ease of ownership.

I’ll address the elephant in the room first, the Com Star. American cars are known to be quite bad in reliability tests, so will the LHE Com Star do any better than those American cars of old? I reckon it won’t. Because after I tested it on the track, it threw a CEL (check engine light) at me and it only has a 3-year, 60,000 miles warranty. And these LHE cars are well known for dissolving in areas where salt is used on the roads or in coastal regions and even the latest Com Star can be seen rusting in the Rust Belt area. So be beware of this.

The Znopresk on the other hand should be very reliable. It’s made using proven technology, the chassis has been around for a while and we haven’t heard stories of any major problems on both the Zest and the BMMA Dolphine. The engine is also proven and should last very long, since the reliability surveys have shown the old ZM Danzig to be very satisfying indeed.

So what about the Lepton? I believe it will also give you years of reliable motoring, since, again, the engine and engineering are proven on this car. And there is a nice 5-year, 100,000 mile warranty.

With the Cosmos, you get a nice maintenance plan, like the one that most luxury car makes such as Carlotta and Bavaria are offering, consisting of 3 years of maintenance that can be transferred to the next owner. Astana is also known for making reliable cars, but you never know with these all new models. All considered I reckon it won’t give you many troubles either.

The Com Star and the Danzig offer superb fuel economy, getting similar results, 4.83lt/100km for the Com Star, with the Danzig following very close, returning 4.87lt/100km. The Lepton didn’t do as well, at 6.39lt/100km, and the Cosmos was the worst at 7.59lt/100km. This is something you should take in consideration when you’re choosing your next company car.

So as you can see, all of these cars have their faults and merits. But there’s one area I have left unattended until now. The Price. The Danzig was the cheapest car out of the four by a huge margin. The Com Star was the second cheapest, many thousand dollars more expensive than the Danzig. The Lepton was a bit more expensive than the Com Star. And like I said earlier, the Cosmos might have the nicest interior, but there’s a price to pay, several thousand dollars more than the Lepton, in fact.

So what’s the conclusion? I can say that all of these 4 cars are very nice in their own way. The Danzig Earthline is very economical and very cheap. The Lepton is a proven car from a proven brand. The Com Star might not look appealing at first, but if you delve deep down, you’ll find that it has a nice character and is actually a very good car. But I must say, the Cosmos is an even better car than that, but that comes at a cost.

So which one should you buy then?

The Danzig is a nice surprise. The ZM brand is famous for making cheap cars and the Danzig certainly fits the bill. But it’s slow, properly slow. It might be comfortable, but it couldn’t really match the other cars. If you’re buying this sort of car, you might need to carry your children in it and the Danzig is not the safest car here, by a big margin. So it is a good car, especially if you want something cheap, and it actually feels like a more expensive car than it actually is. However, on this competition it was outclassed. You can have a better car if you’re willing to spend more money, so 4th it came.

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One of those cars could be the Baltazar Lepton. It’s very comfortable, reasonably nice to drive, adequately quick and much safer than the Danzig. It’s a safe choice, that’s for sure. It can be anything you want in a car, however it doesn’t have character, it simply leaves you cold after a drive. And because of that, it only gets 3rd place.

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Or you could choose the LHE Com Star. Yes, it’s very ugly, it’s also known for it’s lack of reliability and rust-protection, to put it another way, I’m not surprised to see so few old LHEs on the road. On the other hand, it has character, it’s a much nicer car than it appeared at first. It might not be as reliable or practical as the Lepton, but it’s cheaper and nicer to drive. Try one before you dismiss it as complete and utter crap. It came 2nd.

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Well, I could say that the Cosmos is too expensive for today’s post-recession world. But, what I really have to say is that it’s easily worth the money you pay for it. It’s an excellent car overall, it is fast, fun to drive, comfortable and safe, and, while all of the other cars are merely average car, no one would bat an eye if you said you drove, for example, a Baltazar Lepton. But a Astana Cosmos? It’s much more prestigious. And it’s a loveable car as well, with its rear-biased AWD system, inline 6 engine and semi-trailing arms suspension. No wonder it reminded me of the Bavaria UWOT30 270E AWD I had in Europe, both cars have the same layout, with the Cosmos being a much more modern package. Take my advice here, if you have the cash to pay for this thing, just do it.

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If you asked Ivor Derr what connection he has with the founder of Conan Cars PLC, Conan Derr the First? He'll reply that the guy must've been his great grandfather's uncle drunken car maker cousin or something. For that he never owned a Conan. Ivor once tuned a used Znopresk and use it to troll all those tailgating Bavaria's drivers, but never above the speed limit, obviously.
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NormanVauxhall

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Post Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:35 pm

Re: UCC – Ultimate Car Comparison – Dad’s Limbo [Review Post

ZM was probably a bit conservative sending the 1.7 liter version. A more prestigious model could had a better placement, all other cars were way more costly.
However we are happy of the 4th place: we shown that you can make a great car with less ;)

For the record the production cost of the car was around 8.3k
ŽM-Automobili Group
Born by the fusion of Blue Marlin Motori Auto and Žnoprešk Avto in 1972.
BMMS Dolphine Mk.II and Žnoprešk Zest (1974)
Žnoprešk Z217 (1963)
Žnoprešk Zap! (1981)
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Post Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:17 pm

Re: UCC – Ultimate Car Comparison – Dad’s Limbo [Review Post

Astana is very pround and happy with the results form this review, in getting the highest recommendation. Some champaign will be opened here in Amsterdam today. Hopefully, this car will sell as good as it deserves.

We would like to thank the reviewer, for making such an extensive review and car-comparison.

In future, we might offer a more standard dumbed-down version of this car with less luxury, but more economical and still with the same Astana feel for quality and motoring enjoyment.
Last edited by Tycondero on Sat Jun 13, 2015 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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