FAQ  •  Login

new 2.3 multipurpose motor architecture, opinions needed.

<<

headacheengineering

User avatar

Turbocharged
Turbocharged

Posts: 38

Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:00 pm

Cars: Peugeot 206
Lincoln Town Car
Honda Accord V6
Nissan Qashqai
Ford Focus
Mercedes 190D 2.5T

Post Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:49 pm

new 2.3 multipurpose motor architecture, opinions needed.

I just finished designing this engine, it is to be used for a variety of applications, it can range from 300 HP/ 280 ft-lbs to 600 HP/400 ft-lbs in race tune, reliability is 60 minimum on all states of tune and fuel economy is on average on the 20% mark. minimum cost to build is $1091, does not require any special parts except for lightweight pistons. the design was made in mind with lots of torque available for heavy bodies and AWD.

the first question is what would you change or what other parameters i should consider adding to the above?

the other question that is on my mind is can this motor replace theoretically speaking straight 6s and midrange V8s, or is there a flaw in the strategy?

Screenshot (39).png
Screenshot (39).png (899.24 KiB) Viewed 7446 times
DEM Motor Company Ltd.

Chief Engineer & Owner.


The Company That Makes Sense!TM.
<<

Lordred

User avatar

Posts: 695

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:22 pm

Location: California, USA

Cars: 1966 Sunbeam Alpine
1997 Ford Crown Victoria

Post Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:03 am

Re: new 2.3 multipurpose motor architecture, opinions needed

I would consider aiming for lower emmissions on your lower range motors.

As a mult purpose motor will there be a light truck or cargo carrier role to be filled? I would look into a lower reving motor which can spool up a turbo very early.

Just my initial thoughts, looking foward to see your full range of engines.
Image
ID: 1963886
<<

Urbanliner

User avatar

Naturally Aspirated

Posts: 71

Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:37 pm

Cars: Suzuki Pallette

Post Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:15 pm

Re: new 2.3 multipurpose motor architecture, opinions needed

The car's prestige is increased with the amount of cylinders the engine has, so the engine wouldn't replace V8 engines in luxury cars and lower range supercars unless you want it to have lower prestige. Nice engine, though.
Name of Car Company: Daiki Automotive Company
Owner of company: Urbanliner
Website or Forum thread: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=4779 (Doubles as the thread for Tsuchiura Garage)
Established: September 12, 2014
Company ID: #2014331
<<

KD14

Naturally Aspirated

Posts: 64

Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:01 am

Cars: 2005 Miata NB

Post Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:22 am

Re: new 2.3 multipurpose motor architecture, opinions needed

First thing, you are missing a power band, you rich the hp peak and then bam you hit the limiter, either find a tune that gives you at least 500rpm range of flat line, or change the engine to run at higher rpm to reach that spot.
Second, in that boost range, direct injection is really paying off.
Third, with that cast iron block&head this engine really weights like an entry level V8 :p

I think with a 2.5L displacement, all aluminum, direct injection and a smaller turbo tuned to the same hp, this engine will be a hell of alot nicer. Right now its more like a budget tuner ;)
<<

headacheengineering

User avatar

Turbocharged
Turbocharged

Posts: 38

Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:00 pm

Cars: Peugeot 206
Lincoln Town Car
Honda Accord V6
Nissan Qashqai
Ford Focus
Mercedes 190D 2.5T

Post Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:20 pm

Re: new 2.3 multipurpose motor architecture, opinions needed

Thank you for all your opinions!!!!

Here is DEM Motor Company Ltd's FULL range of engines in two posts :mrgreen:

I established an ID code like the one manufacturers use for example, the format is XXB-YYGDT-HR , XX denotes engine size, then the letter denotes the block type. A for Iron, B for Aluminum, and YY denotes valve number (so to distinguish the head type.) the three letters denotes fueling type and Turbo system; GDT=Gasoline Direct injection Turbo. Then the final letters denote engine behavior HR, HE, HP, SP, HR=High Response which means turbo or torque curve kicks in early; HE=High efficiency which means balanced performance; HP=High Power which means this motor has been built for outright power, SP=Smooth Performance which means this motor has been built with smoothness in mind.

Moving on to the 23A-16GDT-HE, this motor is designed for medium sized AWD cars/wagons

No quality sliders used.

Screenshot (49).png
Screenshot (49).png (917.07 KiB) Viewed 7338 times


Then we have the 23A-GDT-HP,this is designed for a competition car example: Pikes Peak, showcase car :D

Every quality slider has been used to tremendous effect :twisted:

Screenshot (50).png
Screenshot (50).png (928.1 KiB) Viewed 7338 times


Next one is the 44B-GDT-SP, designed for luxury vehicles, Tons of reliable power and smooth, fancy car doodles around on the highway then some rice rocket tries to instigate a race, rev up to 3500 RPM and watch him disappear :lol:

No quality sliders used

Screenshot (46).png
Screenshot (46).png (912.1 KiB) Viewed 7338 times
DEM Motor Company Ltd.

Chief Engineer & Owner.


The Company That Makes Sense!TM.
<<

headacheengineering

User avatar

Turbocharged
Turbocharged

Posts: 38

Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:00 pm

Cars: Peugeot 206
Lincoln Town Car
Honda Accord V6
Nissan Qashqai
Ford Focus
Mercedes 190D 2.5T

Post Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:27 pm

Re: new 2.3 multipurpose motor architecture, opinions needed

Continuation of Presentation


17B-GDT-HE, this motor is designed for midrange transverse applications ex: hot hatch, AWD car/wagon, entry level sports car.

this one uses some quality sliders but not excessively the highest one used is 8 for one item.

Screenshot (43).png
Screenshot (43).png (865.14 KiB) Viewed 7338 times


Next up is the 22B-16GD-HE, this motor is designed for low level sports application/fuel efficient cars.
Screenshot (45).png
Screenshot (45).png (918.12 KiB) Viewed 7338 times

No quality sliders used.

then we have the 49A-FI-HE, designed for large RWD vehicles (cop cars and trucks), focus was on Fuel economy, and reliability.

Screenshot (40).png
Screenshot (40).png (985.76 KiB) Viewed 7338 times


No quality sliders used.

So what do you guys think?
DEM Motor Company Ltd.

Chief Engineer & Owner.


The Company That Makes Sense!TM.
<<

headacheengineering

User avatar

Turbocharged
Turbocharged

Posts: 38

Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:00 pm

Cars: Peugeot 206
Lincoln Town Car
Honda Accord V6
Nissan Qashqai
Ford Focus
Mercedes 190D 2.5T

Post Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:29 pm

Re: new 2.3 multipurpose motor architecture, opinions needed

KD14 wrote:First thing, you are missing a power band, you rich the hp peak and then bam you hit the limiter, either find a tune that gives you at least 500rpm range of flat line, or change the engine to run at higher rpm to reach that spot.
Second, in that boost range, direct injection is really paying off.
Third, with that cast iron block&head this engine really weights like an entry level V8 :p

I think with a 2.5L displacement, all aluminum, direct injection and a smaller turbo tuned to the same hp, this engine will be a hell of alot nicer. Right now its more like a budget tuner ;)


the reason why I seal the upper RPM band is for reliability reasons, and the gains are not that interesting either, 5 hp on average, not much and also you have to deal with detonation. the motor is heavy but it is not intended for light weight use, I would use it as an N/A 6 cylinder replacement and entry V8's


I don't like big 4 cylinder motors any bigger than 2.4 and you should switch to a 6 cylinder, it just doesn't feel right for me to make big displacement 4 cylinders
DEM Motor Company Ltd.

Chief Engineer & Owner.


The Company That Makes Sense!TM.
<<

nialloftara

User avatar

Supercharged
Supercharged

Posts: 1983

Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:07 pm

Location: Northeast USA

Cars: 2006 Scion Xb

Post Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:15 pm

Re: new 2.3 multipurpose motor architecture, opinions needed

Rather than focusing on just HP watch your performance index, or put it In a car and check your stats and times. More rpms beyond the max power allows you to stay higher in the poweeband between shifts.
Chief designer and CEO, Centauri motor works, Centauri Performance Vehicles (CPV)
"Centauri: The Stars Are Within Your Reach."
Centauri engines Centauri cars
CPV engines CPV cars
Company ID: 1943047
<<

KD14

Naturally Aspirated

Posts: 64

Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:01 am

Cars: 2005 Miata NB

Post Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:51 am

Re: new 2.3 multipurpose motor architecture, opinions needed

So bore them up and stroke them down so they can rev higher, the important is the power band, the usability, not the current, the longer you can stay on the power, the greater the acceleration will be.

And your last V8 engine, will surely reach 400hp
<<

Sayonara

User avatar

Naturally Aspirated

Posts: 219

Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:19 am

Post Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:43 pm

Re: new 2.3 multipurpose motor architecture, opinions needed

headacheengineering wrote:the reason why I seal the upper RPM band is for reliability reasons, and the gains are not that interesting either, 5 hp on average, not much and also you have to deal with detonation. the motor is heavy but it is not intended for light weight use, I would use it as an N/A 6 cylinder replacement and entry V8's


I don't like big 4 cylinder motors any bigger than 2.4 and you should switch to a 6 cylinder, it just doesn't feel right for me to make big displacement 4 cylinders


Don't see anything wrong with setting a lower-than-optimal-power redline for reliability reasons, it happens all the time in real cars.

When Tycoon mode comes and you have to pay development costs for new engines, I doubt anybody will be adjusting their bores and strokes for every single engine they build. If you're designing to a budget, building a new engine just for a few extra kilowatts isn't a wise investment of funds.

The only suggestion I have is to improve the fuel economy on those turbocharged engines. It's not too difficult to build a direct injected naturally aspirated engine with better than 30% efficiency, so it seems odd to replace a six- or eight-cylinder naturally aspirated engine with something less efficient.
Image
<<

KD14

Naturally Aspirated

Posts: 64

Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:01 am

Cars: 2005 Miata NB

Post Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:37 pm

Re: new 2.3 multipurpose motor architecture, opinions needed

The idea is to build them into those dimensions in advanced, not changing them all the time.
I have in my inventory two series, eco series which are designed to rev up to 6500rpm, and one sport series which designed to rev up to 7500rpm
<<

Tycondero

User avatar

Naturally Aspirated

Posts: 235

Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:36 pm

Post Fri May 01, 2015 7:04 pm

Re: new 2.3 multipurpose motor architecture, opinions needed

As long as you can stay within a family I guess there will not be that much retooling cost. I'm really wondering how R&D will be in the game. It will impact the game a lot I think. Right now we can make superengines and cars that do not cost a lot more than 50k, but all the R&D investment is ignored. I agree with the OP that ultimately we will likely have a couple of engines each decade or so, which will by varied most by displacement and tuning. That said a wider powerband would help out. Maybe it is better to have that part wider by reducing the cam. That way you will reach peak power earlier within you current rev limits. You will get slightly less max power, but it is effective for longer and might reduce fuel consumption too.
<<

headacheengineering

User avatar

Turbocharged
Turbocharged

Posts: 38

Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:00 pm

Cars: Peugeot 206
Lincoln Town Car
Honda Accord V6
Nissan Qashqai
Ford Focus
Mercedes 190D 2.5T

Post Fri May 01, 2015 9:06 pm

Re: new 2.3 multipurpose motor architecture, opinions needed

Thank you for all the comments!!! :D


@KD14

As for the powerband, these motors have a high torque band, therefore it is not necessary to rev then past the hp peak to stay in the powerband, it is a different approach.

The powerband is between 4700 and 7200 RPMs, on the 23A-GDT-HE. (the second one in this thread).

with proper gearing this engine is able to rev quite freely because full turbo boost has been already achieved.


the best way to prove that, is by putting it in a car and comparing lap-times. so since we surely have different car setups, I propose that you try it in your car and compare times to see if my theory is correct. ;)

use a similar engine from your stable, with roughly the same HP and TQ and weight. and same gearing setup.

If you are game, let me know on this thread and I will post the engine file.
DEM Motor Company Ltd.

Chief Engineer & Owner.


The Company That Makes Sense!TM.
<<

chrisbo28

Naturally Aspirated

Posts: 22

Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 5:34 pm

Cars: A Golf Buggy!

Post Sun May 10, 2015 11:09 am

Re: new 2.3 multipurpose motor architecture, opinions needed

KD14 wrote:So bore them up and stroke them down so they can rev higher, the important is the power band, the usability, not the current, the longer you can stay on the power, the greater the acceleration will be.

And your last V8 engine, will surely reach 400hp


That's right, I recently build a Vtech engine with automation. Reliable on 10,000 rpm with 137 hp and 1.2l. :)

Return to Engine Sharing Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests