Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 crashes in Ukraine

[mer_at]

2 videos for that topic

first - US state department says:
- russia provides heavy weapons to separatists
- russian military fired artillery, from russian soil onto ukrainian military

one reporter asked for proof ... see what happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T-ou8bSryI

second video is from JUNE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKKoKmUtQXE
ukrainian army uses passenger jets as human shields

further facts:
- blackboxes are save and not tempered with (would rebels who shot that plane down, do that?)
- russia delivered data from their radar
- US DIDN'T release radar data, and DIDN'T release satellite data. even though they are watching ukraine from space since months.
- mainstream media pointed their fingers to putin right away
- nowadays they are silent on that topic. only thing shown are victims families

who would have a motive to shoot down a passenger plane?
- rebels? nope. russia? nope. US would be all over them
- Ukrainian military? if they could blame it on the rebels - sure thing

could the rebels have shot down the plane, not knowing it's civilian?
- yes

[Killrob]

Apart from that I doubt the rebels could have shot down the plane even if if they wanted (lack of rebel radar coverage for this missile system to work, plus an out of order missile system), I sadly have to agree with all your points mer_at.

Considering that the current Ukraine "government" is a US puppet, as evidenced by the famous and confirmed Victoria "Fuck the EU" Nuland recording and plenty of other now proven conspiracy facts, the only one with a motive here is the US and its Ukraine government. Ukraine forces have suffered heavy losses and important strategic positions in the two weeks leading up to this "accident". So what better way to steer clear of a losing battle than calling for an international intervention allowing NATO forces to help eradicate these 'troublemakers'?

As you point out, the US and Ukraine so far have been pointing fingers, while Russia has been providing evidence, asked very good questions (that were largely ignored by western media) and even called for an independent, international investigation into this issue. *sigh*

A little disclaimer here: As we have plenty of Americans here on the forum (who SHOULD be pretty upset by the whole situation), I would like to point out that in my opinion the American People have very very little to do with the American Government, which is completely out of control.

[Cheeseman]

News just in: http://www.newsweek.com/massive-explosi ... ?piano_t=1

[Dragawn]

A little disclaimer here: As we have plenty of Americans here on the forum (who SHOULD be pretty upset by the whole situation), I would like to point out that in my opinion the American People have very very little to do with the American Government, which is completely out of control.

Since everyone is leaving links here, It's official that sadly enough average Joe in America doesn't have much to say anymore: http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

The situation is very sad indeed, whatever of the two happened. I have no clue myself on how able rebels are to run a long range anti-air system though, it wouldn't surprise me if Russia gave a hand, but on the other hand sadly I see America capable of shooting down civilians for propaganda too, especially not revealing any Intel at all makes them suspicious, except for the fact they never do it.

[nialloftara]

From the sites I've seen the plane had a pair of su-17 flankers escorting it. From the ground you would see a military escort of what could be a high value target. I'm holding my speculation till more facts are in but I don't see what would have been in it for my government to arrange this, we are already reeling in terms of international relations with the whole nsa thing.

[Jakgoe]

From the sites I've seen the plane had a pair of su-17 flankers escorting it. From the ground you would see a military escort of what could be a high value target. I'm holding my speculation till more facts are in but I don't see what would have been in it for my government to arrange this, we are already reeling in terms of international relations with the whole nsa thing.

That's certainly interesting, but from what sites are you getting that news from. I'd be slightly hesitant to believe anything said by the US media. Or Russian media. Or any media source that has political ties to the issue .

What's in it for the US? Well, before the incident, the two global "bad guys" at the moment were Russia, for the whole Ukrainian debacle, and, as you stated, the US for the global spying. Do the US politicians really want their illegal mess of a "surveillance" program to be the center of global attention? No. Now, I wouldn't say that the US directly influenced the shoot-down, but they sure do have quite a bit to gain from it.

[Garth123]

Ugh.

It seems like it’s the fourth time a civilian airliner has been brought down by a missile. The Soviets did it twice to South Korean airliners – though the first time, only two passengers were killed (the plane made an emergency landing on a frozen lake). The US shot down an Iranian airliner during the Gulf War. Now this. I guess it’s different in that it was probably done by a militia group. I didn’t know those things could reach 33,000 ft.

I’ve heard good things about Malaysia Airlines, but they’ve been unlucky lately.