Open Beta [B150918+] Feedback

[Trifler]

It sounds to me like you're saying that the way the game works is a customer says, "Do I buy a car from the Convertible category, or not?" and if not, then they don't buy a car. Thus, you include non-convertibles in the Convertibles category to avoid customers vanishing from the market. Whereas I was talking about a customer that says, "If I don't buy a car from the Convertible category, what's the next best category?" That's what I call the "spillover" effect.

But I don't think that all, or even most, customers who wish to buy from a single demographic would necessarily agree on what 'the next best category' is, given we can't assume what one's motivations to thinking about buying a convertible is in the first place. In real life conditions, when we report that car types appeal to demographics and there is 'spill over', we're only noticing a specific trend, due to the specific characteristics of those specific cars or group of (emerging) cars. By the same token, the demographics as listed in this game aren't hard and fast labels, only a set of characteristics weighted differently.

To give you an example going the other way, I am very tempted to buy a Miata. This is technically a convertible car, but I'm not actually that interested in it being a convertible, I'm more interested in the fact it is a fun or light and sporty car. I could be in the market for other light and sporty cars that aren't convertible... but if I bought the Miata I would have bought a 'convertible'. I suspect that many Miata buyers are similarly drawn to the car's driving characteristics moreso than the mere fact it is a convertible. Thus from this perspective, it would make sense for the Miata (and its competitors!) to score well in all those segments.

Given the way the data is presented, what isn't intuitive is that you may build a car specifically geared towards excelling in one sector, only to find that even if it does well in that particular sector, it will do even better in other related (and sometimes not so closely related) sectors. Part of that may be due to competition or lack thereof, but in the end, you'll get used to it.

On a somewhat related note, sometimes an entire demographic will display unusual interest in something clearly not marketed to them. Just look at what happened to My Little Pony...

If you hover the cursor over a category, it displays the characteristics that are scored for that category. The game already ranks the categories from best to worst, so there's no trouble there.

In your example, you were interested in any and all categories that had a set of characteristics. In the game's case, someone who wanted a car with similar characteristics to the Convertible category, but with a hardtop, would likely go for the Premium Budget category. Same characteristics in very similar proportions, but without the convertible top.

On your last point regarding cars doing better in other related categories than what you designed it for: I noticed that too. I think the main reason is because the green coloring is based on the Competitiveness ranking, rather than on the Desirability ranking. When we're designing, we're focused on desirability. I'm wondering if a toggle between shading for Competitiveness and Desirability would be helpful.

[Der Bayer]

Trifler, I think you are misunderstanding something here. You are talking about cars being in a specific category and buyers choosing a car from specific categories/demographics. This is not the way the model works. The buyers are grouped in categories with specific preferences. Cars go into a single pool. Buyers then choose the cars which best suit their needs. So if there's a good convertible on the market, the convertible buyer will choose it. If not he will take an alternative.

[Trifler]

Trifler, I think you are misunderstanding something here. You are talking about cars being in a specific category and buyers choosing a car from specific categories/demographics. This is not the way the model works. The buyers are grouped in categories with specific preferences. Cars go into a single pool. Buyers then choose the cars which best suit their needs. So if there's a good convertible on the market, the convertible buyer will choose it. If not he will take an alternative.

That's exactly the way I understand it. What's been under discussion is that the alternative is no longer a convertible. As I said above, the end result is the same. It's how it's presented. I'm saying it's more intuitive to illustrate that the customer chose a different category when they couldn't find a convertible than to include non-convertibles in the Convertible category.

[Killrob]

That's a fair point, Trifler. Considering how the whole market calculations and buyer demographics work and will work (obviously they are not done yet, there is no "size" to the demographics yet), your variant of showing things becomes less transparent in the case there is no good fit in the market: they would show up in other categories, instead of staying with their actual preference. That makes it harder to spot niches while designing a car and IMO potentially confusing once the demographics sizes are implemented.

[Trifler]

That's a fair point, Trifler. Considering how the whole market calculations and buyer demographics work and will work (obviously they are not done yet, there is no "size" to the demographics yet), your variant of showing things becomes less transparent in the case there is no good fit in the market: they would show up in other categories, instead of staying with their actual preference. That makes it harder to spot niches while designing a car and IMO potentially confusing once the demographics sizes are implemented.

That's a fair point too. In any case, I wasn't trying to make a big deal out of it. Thank you for helping me understand it better. Perhaps this train of thought could serve as food for a FAQ? I know it will help me explain it to others, if it comes up.

[Zabhawkin]

With the undertrays, I noticed that if you change the body and frame material, ie. from steel to carbon fiber or vice versa it doesn't change the material for the undertray (Offroad skidtray shouldn't though). Shouldn't the material change with either the body material, or maybe frame material?

Also its a minor thing, but I finally figured out what was throwing me with the offroad skidtrays, for the smaller vehicles it comes out pretty good, but for the larger ones you wind up with much much more skid plate than is needed. You only need to protect the vital components, engine, transmission, transfer case, fuel tank... even though the vehicle might be 2-3 times larger the area needed to protect those components is rarely that much larger.

[Killrob]

We just pushed out Open Beta Update 3, more fixes and polish tomorrow!

[Trifler]

With the undertrays, I noticed that if you change the body and frame material, ie. from steel to carbon fiber or vice versa it doesn't change the material for the undertray (Offroad skidtray shouldn't though). Shouldn't the material change with either the body material, or maybe frame material?

I'm sure someone else could give you a more technical answer, but undertrays are generally just a sheet of plastic or polymer attached to the underside of the car. They're not made of body paneling material (Maybe it is if you're using polymer body panels? Not sure.). For example, if you look under an older car, you can see the bottom of the engine and up into the engine bay. A car with an undertray has a big sheet of polymer covering the underside of the engine bay. Its purpose is to reduce aerodynamic drag by keeping wind from blowing up in there. EDIT: Skid trays are indeed made of metal though.

As an aside, I've seen poorly designed stock ones that allow about two gallons of rain water to slosh around inside there. =P

[Trifler]

- Fixed pink boxes for 1955 Pickup.
- Fixed pink boxes for 1960 Offroader.
- Fixed pink boxes for 1965 Wagon and 2-door.
- Changed RR availability for 1955 Minicar.
- Changed RR availability for 1960 Sedan.
- Fixed seating options for 1960 Offroader.

I downloaded the update and none of these items in the patch notes have changed... I tried verifying the game cache and still no change. Not sure why.

[Trifler]

Another small bug:
The smaller 1940 car will not fit any engine, no matter how small, if 4x4 is selected.

[Killrob]

Ahh damn, then Andrew may have forgotten to push his updates to the main build before we built it for release :s we'll push another one with these changes right in the morning (~10h).

[Trifler]

Ahh damn, then Andrew may have forgotten to push his updates to the main build before we built it for release :s we'll push another one with these changes right in the morning (~10h).

Cool. No worries, and thanks.

[KLinardo]

I don't know if this is a serious issue as it doesn't affect my gameplay, but I found that an error message pops up in the .exe program every time I run the game.

It's Error 74. I've included a screenshot for a better description.

[ohm1996]

In the B150923 I still found these car body problems.
50s Pickup-Van-Carryall, 60s SUV (both LWB and Pickup) and 60s Patario bodies (2-Door and Wagon only) remains a full pink box.
(Wagon variant of the 60s Mid-Size Sedan has issues on morphing: if I morph the upper bonnet/hood, the rear passenger roof was affected as well.)
70s Mid-Size Wedge still had a pink defect.
70s Full-Size Wedge Sedan upper boot/trunk morph also morphes the lower section of a boot/trunk little bit, unlike 2-door and hatchback-wagon variant.
80s Hatch had morphing problems on 2-Door, 3-Door Group B, 5-Door variants.
80s Executive Convertible with plastic trim had different material in the side mirror.
90s Van (Colored Bumper) had lower bonnet/hood line than others and also pink bug.
2010s Swoopy front window angle was not same as public release (shorter than B150707).

[willempjuh2000]

Game runs much smoother after the update
But I have found a bug:

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