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USDMFTWs Car Reviewing(Update on last post)

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07CobaltGirl

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Post Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:25 am

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

So the "MSRP" formula is actually simulating a "market value". I think it's a great way to do it. Automobile pricing is very subjective. The price of a 1965 AC Cobra is completely dependent on what a buyer is willing to pay for it and what a seller is willing to sell it for, so it makes everything about pricing a judgement call. Having a linear formula for comparative purposes makes it easier to understand the comparison.
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USDMFTW

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Post Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:02 am

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

07CobaltGirl wrote:So the "MSRP" formula is actually simulating a "market value". I think it's a great way to do it. Automobile pricing is very subjective. The price of a 1965 AC Cobra is completely dependent on what a buyer is willing to pay for it and what a seller is willing to sell it for, so it makes everything about pricing a judgement call. Having a linear formula for comparative purposes makes it easier to understand the comparison.


Thats exactly why i made and disclosed the formula! The point of reviewing/someone reading the review is to most likely compare it to the competition.
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utopian201

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Post Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:34 pm

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

Won't it mean that every car (and manufacturer) submitted will have the same margins which is unrealistic eg BMW with a 3.0 direct injection engine and leather interior would sell more than a Hyundai with a 3.0 direct injection engine and leather interior. But under this method, via the formula, they will have the same msrp

I guess you need this because you accept submissions and this is a way to prevent people from submitting a car which 'is-a-high-end-luxury-car-but-is-priced-like-a-Daihatsu'. But I think the submitter should have some say in where their car is priced. If their high end car is priced too cheap, it just means the review should reflect that they are taking their brand down market.
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USDMFTW

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Post Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:52 pm

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

utopian201 wrote:Won't it mean that every car (and manufacturer) submitted will have the same margins which is unrealistic eg BMW with a 3.0 direct injection engine and leather interior would sell more than a Hyundai with a 3.0 direct injection engine and leather interior. But under this method, via the formula, they will have the same msrp

I guess you need this because you accept submissions and this is a way to prevent people from submitting a car which 'is-a-high-end-luxury-car-but-is-priced-like-a-Daihatsu'. But I think the submitter should have some say in where their car is priced. If their high end car is priced too cheap, it just means the review should reflect that they are taking their brand down market.


Well, there are differences between a hyundai and bmw even if they have the same options on paper. To many differences to list. Want your car to be upscale like a bmw? Up the quality sliders.

If you want your car to be upscale etc. reflect that in the design decisions, not text sent to a reviewer.
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TheTom

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Post Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:13 pm

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

I also think that the MSRP greatly depends on the amount of cars the manufacturer intends to sell. So for example, a small eco hatch can be priced well below your suggested price formula (as long as the MSRP ends up being above the production costs) and it'll still return profit for the manufacturer because of the volume of cars sold.
A luxury saloon, however, will not return profit if you use the same formula for the MSRP because the amount of cars sold will be much lower.
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07CobaltGirl

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Post Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:02 pm

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

It needs to be called "market value" formula, as people are getting hung up on MSRP (Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price), which is set by the manufacturer, of course. Since there is currently no way (for us) to blindly simulate brand recognition and production numbers, this puts all of the cars on a level playing field. Sure BMW can charge more for their cars. They use higher end materials AND they have global brand recognition. On top of that they use (arguably) better workmanship in their manufacturing process. But what is actually the difference between Toyota and Lexus? They're basically the same cars under a different brand name. Sure they have better options on a Lexus (which cost more to produce), but at their core, there is nothing different. Options can be simulated. Brand names cannot. For the most part, consumers don't give a rats ass how many 330i models were produced by BMW.

I'm only going to produce 20 cars this year, so each one is worth $200,000,000 because I have to recover R&D. Prove I'm not.

/rant
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USDMFTW

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Post Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:53 pm

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

TheTom wrote:I also think that the MSRP greatly depends on the amount of cars the manufacturer intends to sell. So for example, a small eco hatch can be priced well below your suggested price formula (as long as the MSRP ends up being above the production costs) and it'll still return profit for the manufacturer because of the volume of cars sold.
A luxury saloon, however, will not return profit if you use the same formula for the MSRP because the amount of cars sold will be much lower.


Your completely over complicating and over thinking the purpose of the formula.

Anyways, the real life cars i recreated and then priced with my formula were pretty close to how much they cost in real life, the formula works pretty well, let me know when you make a formula that can account for the few thousand variables.

The design of the car pretty much says everything about the car in general, since we dont have the tycoon portion done. If a car requires 1500000000000000000000000000 production units, your not going to be making alot of them, so your quality sliders will be maxed, thus, increasing the cost with my formula. If your car has 150 man hours you have 0 or lower quality sliders, decreases the cost of the car with my formula. There are of course outliers, like strop pointed out, but a limited run car gets its price for its rarity and exclusiveness. I dont understand why such a simple formula is so damn hard to understand.

You can call it market value or msrp. I call it msrp because thats the price i would expect the msrp to be set at, the real world market value has huge variance.

If you dont like my calculations dont submit a car.
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Post Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:30 am

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

I like the pricing formula. Seems to make sense.

The car I sent in, the Vibora Caballero has a premium quality interior and entertainment, a high power engine and a bunch of other fancy stuff. The formula gives it a price of 64315,52 USD, which sounds reasonable IMO since the car is meant to be a muscle car with Mercedes-ish quality interior and comfort. Looking forward to seeing the first review!
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strop

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Post Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:59 am

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

After a lot of to and fro earlier in the thread, I've come to accept the formula for what it is (and have thus submitted a car). The only way to see how it works is to actually test it out!
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USDMFTW

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Post Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:49 am

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

Unfortunately, the reviews are delayed due to some college issues and house renovation that needs done before the reviews.
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USDMFTW

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Post Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:52 am

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

Expect the first review this sunday!
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USDMFTW

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Post Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:53 am

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

Hello, and welcome to the very first review. After delays and some formula changes, it is finally here.

Today, we have the Emden Rage. A v8 powered up market sedan that aims to rival the CTS-V and Charger Hellcat.

Lets get straight to the review shall we.

Quick Stats
Horsepower : 640 @ 7700RPM
Toque :459 @ 7000RPM
Top Speed : 202 MPH
Transmission : 6 Speed Manual
Weight : 3626 Lbs
Mpg : 10.6

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Driveability
8/10
With a 640 hp rwd car, you would expect a car to be rather be, how should we say it....crazy. You would be wrong. The car scores a whooping 8 out of 10 on the driveability section of our testing. Despite being rwd, it still manages to keep its rear wheels under control thanks to driving aids and good footwork. The car has a very smooth and linear torque curve all the way up to the redline thanks to its 5.8L NA MOHV design. The car is of average size and is easy to maneuver at low and high speed and has very precise on center steering. The car also has minor understeer compared to extreme oversteer that most cars in this class have. The only major thing hurting drivebility is the transmission choice, but this is a upmarket 4 door sports car, and manual is king in this segment.

Performance and Sportiness
7/10
With a 0-62mph time of 4.4 seconds, the car is no slouch, but compared to the competition it is far behind. Once we got the car on track, our drivers had major issues getting any traction off the line and struggled to make a clean pass on the strip. After 70 mph, the car finally hooks up and rockets down the strip, producing an average quarter mile time of 12.06 seconds at 131mph. Launch control is no help there, the car simply has no traction off the line. A standing km is completed in 21 seconds flat. A easy tire compound change would vastly help with the wheelspin, as the tires are at a massive 315mm in the rear already. Outside of the dragstrip, the car performed admirably. With a 62-0 braking distance of under 100 feet, this car will slam your face into the dash if you dont wear your seatbelt. All of this fun is put through a great 6 speed manual gearbox, with a slightly heavier clutch but quick, short throws. Our only complaint about this car was the lack of low end power, this car makes a fraction of its max power before 5000 rpms, requiring downshifts to get the same acceleration as competitors that have better low end power.

Handling
9/10
This is the cars strong point. With a low weight of 3626 pounds, the car has minimal body roll and has no excess weight to carry around in turns, scoring an AMAZING 1.36g on our 250 meter skid pad at an again impressive 129.2 mph, thanks to its downforce oriented tray and aero. The car gets around the airfield test track in 1:22:40, a very fast time for being on high end road legal sports tires. The car has active dampers and swaybars that work flawlessly and keep the car well composed at the very high cornering speeds this car can do. Of course, the car is rwd, and provides the handling prowess and fun of rwd on any track or corner you can find.

Comfort
5/10
Comfort is not this cars strong suit, but why would you buy the sport version we have here for comfort anyways? There is really nothing much to say here. The car comes with 5 seats and a pretty nice stereo system. The interior is just simply setup for weight savings, but there are some lower quality materials that we would rather not see in a car at this price. Dont expect heating seats or steering wheel or a touchscreen, save that for your luxury cars as this is real 4 door track weapon. Outside of the interior. the engine is pretty harsh at any rpms but is, ironically, very quiet at even full throttle. The ride is very rough thanks to the aggressive sport tuned suspension. Expect to feel every pebble on the road.

Interior Quality
6/10
Like stated above, the interior quality is average. The stereo system is nice, with 6 speakers and plenty of wattage to cause your ears to explode, but the quality of the seats and the other materials are average and are designed to save weight.

Aesthetics
N/A
This car features a unique design and is very appealing to the eye. It features sharp lines with an appealing aggressive look and quad exhaust and well placed vents.

Safety
6/10
The car is not the safest car you could buy. It has only standard safety options, such as airbags. It weight and size would help it in a crash somewhat, but its just a car with average safety features, nothing extra can be said here. We would like to see better safety options at this price point, but we understand the weight savings.

Cost
9/10
Find me a car at this price, that can have this type of acceleration and handling combination. You cant. At a little over 65,000 dollars. This car is a performance bargain. If you want to move your family and your groceries(your milk will explode when your corner), than this is the car for you IF your willing to sacrifice safety and comfort. The running cost of 3302 dollars per year is pretty high, and the fuel economy is below average. Still, you will not find a faster 4 door car for the money.

Reliability
6/10
Unfortunately, the car suffers from reliability issues outside of the engine. While the engine is 100% solid, we had issues with the differential and some suspension issues. Dont take, this as the car will leave you on the side of the road every time, but do take note of the below average reliability and be prepared to pay a decent amount of money to fix the problems that arise.

Overall
8/10
This car is a 4 door track monster, when you buy this car, you get earth breaking track performance while not exploding your wallet, or getting read of your wife and children for your quest for a race car. It earned an 8/10 because of its excellent performance per dollar and ease of driving on the street and the track, despite is shortcomings in many areas. If you want reliability and comfort, you are looking at the wrong trim or car. There are plenty of options at this price point, but this car is second to none on track performance.


For any feedback on the review, message me!
Last edited by USDMFTW on Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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utopian201

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Post Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:35 am

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing(FIRST REVIEW IS OUT)

How big is the engine and is it turbo charged? I couldn't see in the review. Also what does it look like, eg a screenshot? From the description, it says this car is an upmarket sedan, but from reading the review, the car is decidedly down market and not luxurious at all. This car feels like it is a high performance Chevrolet, rather than a high performance Cadillac.

Good to see reviews coming out!
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USDMFTW

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Post Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:31 am

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing(FIRST REVIEW IS OUT)

utopian201 wrote:How big is the engine and is it turbo charged? I couldn't see in the review. Also what does it look like, eg a screenshot? From the description, it says this car is an upmarket sedan, but from reading the review, the car is decidedly down market and not luxurious at all. This car feels like it is a high performance Chevrolet, rather than a high performance Cadillac.

Good to see reviews coming out!


I just noticed the pictures got deleted during formatting. ill get those up. I say its upmarket because of the price point, not the features. It says NA MOHV v8 in the review, but not the displacement.
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Kampfzerstorer

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Post Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:31 am

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing(FIRST REVIEW IS OUT)

Wow, to think the pricing I've slapped on the Emden Rage was about on par with the pricing based on your calculations; just short of 1.5k. Gotta admit that the mileage part is a bit on the weak side for the Rage, Haha.
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