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USDMFTWs Car Reviewing(Update on last post)

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USDMFTW

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Post Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:59 pm

USDMFTWs Car Reviewing(Update on last post)

Hello and welcome to my car reviewing thread.

This will be another car reviewing thread in a similar format to the already current thread started by cheeseman over a year ago. Your car will be given a score, out of 10, with 10 being the best in multiple categories. Scoring for each category will be calculated using various in game statistics, real world comparisons and reviewer opinion.

At the time of this post, the calculations are not finalized and they may change, I will note when they change.

The categories that each car will be scored on the following:

Driveability - How easy the car is to drive, and how well it drives in various conditions, as well as other general powertrain characteristics that affect the driveability of the car.
Performance - Acceleration and braking characteristics, as well as other general powertrain characteristics that affect the performance of the car.

Handling - How well the car does around corners.

Comfort - How well the car handles road imperfections and other effects.

Interior Quality - How luxurious and the general quality of the interior space.

Aesthetics - How well does the car look( Do note, this is purely a reviewer opinion section and this section has ZERO effect on the cars total score).

Safety - How well the car can withstand a crash, how well it can protect occupants and how well it can prevent accidents with technology.

Cost - How much the car cost, i will give the calculation for the cost as it is specific and may effect the design choices.
The cost is calculated by multiplying the in-game total cost by two, multiplying the in-game production units by 50 and last, multiplying the in-game yearly service cost by 5.

Reliability - Self explanatory.


These categories will be weighted based on the class of the car.

How to submit your car: Entries are being accepted.
Before you submit your car, make sure that the car does not have edited lua files and if any mods are used they must be 100% working and from the steam workshop or automation forums, me and other reviewers will not download mods from any other website or mods submitted as an attachment with the car. Make sure the mods versions are correct and current with the steam workshop or automation forums, if your car does not work for a reviewer the first time, the submitter can resubmit the corrected car. If you car fulfills those requirements, then send your car to me, USDMFTW as an attachment through the message system on these forums. Make sure you include each file needed, the engine family and variant, the car family and trim, easiest way is to use the games export function.

Further information about mods
If you have previously installed trackpadusers v2.0 modpack, please update your modpack and manually remove the mods that were taken out in v3.0.

There are no cost restrictions or quality slider restrictions, but those design decisions will be reflected in the review. Nor is there any restriction on the model year of the car, but try to be realistic with the car.

Current members of the review team:
USDMFTW

Current list of accepted car entries.

Current list of completed car entries.
Last edited by USDMFTW on Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:46 pm, edited 18 times in total.
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Kampfzerstorer

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Post Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:38 pm

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

Err... I tried to find to send a PM, but seems that I can't send it over. Got an error saying "Some users couldn’t be added as they have disabled private message receipt."

Please check, thank you.
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USDMFTW

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Post Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:09 pm

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

Kampfzerstorer wrote:Err... I tried to find to send a PM, but seems that I can't send it over. Got an error saying "Some users couldn’t be added as they have disabled private message receipt."

Please check, thank you.


Messages should be working.
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TheTom

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Post Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:31 pm

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

USDMFTW wrote:The cost is calculated by multiplying the in-game total cost by two, multiplying the in-game production units by 50 and last, multiplying the in-game yearly service cost by 5.



The "Total costs" stat in game is the total costs of producing the car including not only material costs and such, but ALSO the production units multiplied by (i think) 18 or so, don't quote me on that number. But what I'm saying is it doesn't really make sense to multiply the total costs for a more realistic MSPR and then on top of that multiply the production units by 50 and add those two numbers together. You'd end up with a ridiculously overpriced car.
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USDMFTW

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Post Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:15 pm

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

TheTom wrote:
USDMFTW wrote:The cost is calculated by multiplying the in-game total cost by two, multiplying the in-game production units by 50 and last, multiplying the in-game yearly service cost by 5.



The "Total costs" stat in game is the total costs of producing the car including not only material costs and such, but ALSO the production units multiplied by (i think) 18 or so, don't quote me on that number. But what I'm saying is it doesn't really make sense to multiply the total costs for a more realistic MSPR and then on top of that multiply the production units by 50 and add those two numbers together. You'd end up with a ridiculously overpriced car.



Not really, the way i calculate the price is fine. Its turns the price into a realistic purchase cost for most cars and includes the cost of ownership. The in-game price is way low.
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strop

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Post Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:56 pm

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

As modelled by Der Bayer's CTC series, it really depends on the size of your factory, your volume, engineering costs etc. Price margins vary as per the market one is selling to and all the above. So a static arithmetic operation will not adequately model the true price of a car, nor its recommended value.

That's an inherent limitation of the sandbox designer. In addition, the production unit value is static but would realistically vary depending on location of manufacture (E.g. I insist that my cars are built locally but due to a robust union with enterprise bargaining leverage, the average worker at Holden and Ford makes as good an hourly rate as I do... And I'm a doctor.)

What I've suggested before is that the user who sends their car in for review list their MRSP as well as give me information as to what kind of company they are. Then it's up to making a judgement call. Reviewers make judgement calls... Performance on the market is an entirely different matter.
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USDMFTW

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Post Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:15 pm

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

strop wrote:As modelled by Der Bayer's CTC series, it really depends on the size of your factory, your volume, engineering costs etc. Price margins vary as per the market one is selling to and all the above. So a static arithmetic operation will not adequately model the true price of a car, nor its recommended value.

That's an inherent limitation of the sandbox designer. In addition, the production unit value is static but would realistically vary depending on location of manufacture (E.g. I insist that my cars are built locally but due to a robust union with enterprise bargaining leverage, the average worker at Holden and Ford makes as good an hourly rate as I do... And I'm a doctor.)

What I've suggested before is that the user who sends their car in for review list their MRSP as well as give me information as to what kind of company they are. Then it's up to making a judgement call. Reviewers make judgement calls... Performance on the market is an entirely different matter.


I just want a simple calculation for the cost, and i made one and i like it for my reviews. Why over complicate it?
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strop

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Post Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

Because I have no idea what you are actually attempting to achieve in your own calculations. Exactly what "cost" are you trying to calculate again? The "5 times the annual maintenance" implies cost of ownership, which in turn implies you were trying to predict retail price. That you are increasing the weight of man hours by adding a multiple of production units to the total costs (as opposed to even the material costs) then might imply that you're looking to model increased margins due to lower production rate, but even then, e.g. my stupid crazy 2000hp cars with 180000 total costs and 4000PU will still only come to 380000 (480K once you add servicing costs), when such a car should still be (IMO) scored as if it cost more like 3 million to own. But now I'm digressing.

You're right, of course. Over complicating things from a sandbox build would be silly and without a very robust (and automated) model would also not be practical, but if we don't have a clearer rationale, I'm not sure many of us are going to buy into it.
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USDMFTW

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Post Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

No one said my made up formula was perfect......i dont understand why your even posting. With the cars i have tested, the formula works pretty well. One of my current cars, a dodge charger hellcat style car, my calculated price comes out to about 65k.....in which the charger hellcat starts at exactly 62,295. So, i would say, my quick formula is quite accurate for the price a buyer would pay at the dealership for most realistic cars you can build in this game.
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strop

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Post Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:20 am

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

USDMFTW wrote:No one said my made up formula was perfect......i dont understand why your even posting.


I'm posting because I'm potentially interested in sending you a car, but I didn't understand what price you were trying to calculate, nor how you were aiming to factor this cost in. I'm posting it publicly because as other posts have suggested, other potentially interested users also do not understand.

Your example suggests that you're aiming to replicate retail market prices in the US for the majority of the market. That's fine, and it helps me decide which cars I make might have the most relevance to your reviewing system. Since I agree with you that no made up formula will be perfect (that's part of the fun), I don't want to break your system or anything, so I'm not going to deliberately send you some kind of crazy outlier, rather I'd send you something that fits into the general market.
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utopian201

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Post Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:41 am

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

So the reviewer determines the msrp/selling price of the car and therefore the margins of each company? I think that should be up to the submitter to decide.
Lexus will have higher margins than Toyota for example.
But hey, your reviews, your rules.
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USDMFTW

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Post Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:05 am

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

utopian201 wrote:So the reviewer determines the msrp/selling price of the car and therefore the margins of each company? I think that should be up to the submitter to decide.
Lexus will have higher margins than Toyota for example.
But hey, your reviews, your rules.


It keeps it simple and everyone will be using the same formula, rather than submitters suggesting prices and having wildly different msrps for a car that would be within the same class and trim. Im not doing it to limit the submitter, im just using that formula to have a consistent "simulated msrp" price for the vast variety of cars that get submitted and allows everyone to compare cars. The formula isnt perfect, but it does a decent job at simulating a realistic msrp for realistic cars.
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USDMFTW

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Post Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:15 am

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

strop wrote:
USDMFTW wrote:No one said my made up formula was perfect......i dont understand why your even posting.


I'm posting because I'm potentially interested in sending you a car, but I didn't understand what price you were trying to calculate, nor how you were aiming to factor this cost in. I'm posting it publicly because as other posts have suggested, other potentially interested users also do not understand.

Your example suggests that you're aiming to replicate retail market prices in the US for the majority of the market. That's fine, and it helps me decide which cars I make might have the most relevance to your reviewing system. Since I agree with you that no made up formula will be perfect (that's part of the fun), I don't want to break your system or anything, so I'm not going to deliberately send you some kind of crazy outlier, rather I'd send you something that fits into the general market.


Breaking the system is fun and helps fix issues with the system, thats why i dont have any limit on cars people can submit other than mods. The thing i still need to test is cars that are not current model year, US inflation calculations are completely boned for the most part.
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strop

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Post Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:37 pm

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

I would be happy to send you a proposed 2016 model, if you like. I wouldn't have originally because its competitors are generally priced around the 0.8-1.6M mark and it is specifically my attempt at making insanely fast cheaper to build. Also I assume it'll lose points for being RON98, though that stuff is quite easy to get in Aus and EUR.
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USDMFTW

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Post Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:07 pm

Re: USDMFTWs Car Reviewing

strop wrote:I would be happy to send you a proposed 2016 model, if you like. I wouldn't have originally because its competitors are generally priced around the 0.8-1.6M mark and it is specifically my attempt at making insanely fast cheaper to build. Also I assume it'll lose points for being RON98, though that stuff is quite easy to get in Aus and EUR.


The equivalent of 98Ron here in the states is at almost every gas station in the country but for a supercar/hypercar there is no point reduction for the increased cost, if you can pay 500k or 1 mil for a car, gas cost is not an issue.
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